Obama's speech

This is a discussion on Obama's speech within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Harden up the schools, Arm some Admins, Teachers, and Volunteers Train all Admin and Teachers in counter-measures with and without guns, and Eliminate "Gun-Free" zones ...

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Thread: Obama's speech

  1. #256
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    Angry Denial Kills

    • Harden up the schools,
    • Arm some Admins, Teachers, and Volunteers
    • Train all Admin and Teachers in counter-measures with and without guns, and
    • Eliminate "Gun-Free" zones


    These are pretty easy, but the looming "Ban Guns" more theatrical and easier politically.

    We must stop the Denial. A ban is denial. Let us take real steps.

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  3. #257
    Member Array Simonsay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy View Post
    I'll post this again...(I've lost count now)

    Here are a few ideas we should try first:

    Build safe rooms in schools.

    Install better doors in the classrooms.

    Install impenetrable quarantine doors/gates that can be activated during an active shooter emergency.


    There are probably a few more things we could add to this list if we all take a moment to THINK of solutions instead of infringements.

    Here are a few more:

    Install better exterior doors and window that are bullet proof.

    Have a single entry point with two sets of remotely controlled locking doors which creates a secure vestibule.

    Access control systems on all doors.


    Come on people, let's also start talking about this and ideas like this^^^^^^^^^^
    I like the Whack-a-Mole test. If we harden one venue, and the bad guy just moves to another, have we accomplished anything? Not in my mind.



    Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
    Laurence J Peter

  4. #258
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  5. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    It isn't hopeless and it isn't lost, but the suggestion of arming the elementary school teachers I've known, the elementary school principals I've know, and most of the other teachers I've known, is not one that will work. Nor, should it be necessary.


    You're right. It shouldn't be necessary. It's glaringly obvious that it is necessary though for the government cannot be everywhere to protect the citizenry. Taking liberties away from the citizenry is no substitute for extending protection to them either.


    Let's look at ways to make it not necessary so we don't hear a mid-day news story about a shootout at the school cafeteria in which some or all of the injuries came from panic driven defenders inadequately trained for the task.


    This is just more "borrowing trouble." We're already all too familiar with the pain of hearing mid-day news stories about school shootings. It's not a given that school staff, defending themselves and their charges, would cause a bloodbath in the cafeteria as you claim. Certainly we all want to make the collective pain of school shootings permanently go away but continuing to leave schools effectively defenseless won't accomplish that. Neither will high-capacity magazine bans. Like it or not we are going to have to introduce a greater measure of risk to those who would perpetrate these horrors in our schools. The question should be how to best introduce that heightened risk.


    For crying out loud, how many threads and posts do we have on our board talking about how just owning a gun or just having a CHL is insufficient; that additional training is important. Do you really think you can take that 23 year old young woman teaching 2nd grade and get her additional training without all manner of additional problems cropping up? Let's see-- liability, collateral damage, accidents, a teacher or principal gone bad. Plus, dealing with the mass murder issue from the perspective of a school shooting omits the numerous incidents which occurred away from the classroom
    .


    More "wet blanket - it's too hard - there are too many negatives" exhibited here. We have capable 23-30 year old women in this school system, and elsewhere I'm sure, who would gladly serve in this capacity rather than huddle helplessly, looking on while the crazies shoot them and their students. We have motivated gals here who already possess their CHLs and are competent, not to mention the guys.

    You know what? Let's just close the schools. That would be the easiest solution and then no one would have to step up to any personal responsibility. Empty classrooms wouldn't attract crazies.
    pgrass101 likes this.
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  6. #260
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    Regards,
    1MoreGoodGuy
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    Behave Like Someone Who is Determined to be FREE!

  7. #261
    Senior Member Array zamboni's Avatar
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    Does anyone really think that having 10r-mags and carrying three is going to make that big ah difference then having one 30r-mag in preventing an event like the one in Conn.? Aren’t 30r-mags already banned there? The Gov. there even admitted during one of his recent pressers that: “We have the most restrictive gun laws in the U.S. of A. and 30r-clips are already illegal.” Or banning AR-15’s, AR-10’s and any make, model, or style of firearms is going to do any good? Semi-Auto Firearms have been in use for over 120 some odd years now!

    And.

    There are so many of these out there now that even if they did become banned anyone that wants one will be able to get one. You can buy what-ever firearm you want in Chicago now and you can’t legally own a gun there, and look how affective that law has been? And there is so much of this stuff they are thinking about banning, legally out here now too, that it would be a moot point at this point to flat-out ban it at this point. Ever hear the term "Black-Market"? If you ever visit the Windy-City you'll notice there is a kiosk on every corner. And they are not newsstands selling magazines, newspapers, and chewing gum!

    Get real folks, there is a MUCH bigger problem we have to deal with here!

    A ban on anything doesn’t prevent anyone from getting anything they want.

    Black-Market.

    Drugs, underage usage of anything >drugs - tobacco - drinking, driving, anyone driving without a license, robbing banks, murder, skipping bail, escaping from jail, etc.

    And I’m getting kind ah tired of these lemmings stating that AR style firearms are not used to hunt with.

    Just as the evolution of travel has evolved from crawling, to walking, to running, to riding dinosaurs, to the first round wheel and it being added to a cart, then the wheeled cart was pulled by people, then dinosaurs, and then horses, then we rode trains, drove Model-T automobiles, now we are up into too 215-mph NASCAR race cars, and we flew up to the moon and back more then once.

    Well, so have implements of hunting evolved. From the sticks & stones the caveman used, to throwing spears, bow & arrows, musket black-powder firearms, to revolvers and lever rifles, to semi-auto rifles, and their modern designs now are AR style hunting rifles. So AR's are used for hunting now, and for so many reasons that; the mod’s would delete my post if I listed them because it would be way tooooo long.

    Note to all: "AR" means ArmaLite Rifle not Assault Rifle.

    So yes Virginia, not only is there a Santa Claus...BUT! ArmaLite Rifle's a.k.a. AR’s and their .223/5.56 & .305 & 7.62 caliber-ammo's ARE used to hunt with.

    And yes, 30r-clips do aid hunters hunt, in the woods too. And if you were an avid hunter you would know this. But if not, please allow me too help edumacate you as to how come and, why.

    It is because, while we do so often, get bored, while waiting, sometimes for hours, for that big 12-Pointer to stroll up, so as to pass the time we sight in our scope, plinkun ah few pop cans, and those 30r-clips insure us that, while we have already used some ammo to calibrate, we’ll STILL have some ammo left, to use when Mr. Buck arrives on scene with out re-loading!

  8. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simonsay View Post
    I like the Whack-a-Mole test. If we harden one venue, and the bad guy just moves to another, have we accomplished anything? Not in my mind.

    Against logic there is no armor like ignorance.
    Laurence J Peter
    Are you saying that it is more logical just to leave all venues soft and vulnerable? Bad guys gotta have choices ... lots of choices.
    Rock and Glock and 3wggl like this.
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  9. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Our teachers are for the most part young men and women with little interest in becoming armed security officers for their school.
    Hop - most jobs have tasks that are not favorites. That does not mean that we don't have to do them and do them well. That's why it's called work.
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  10. #264
    Member Array Simonsay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    Are you saying that it is more logical just to leave all venues soft and vulnerable? Bad guys gotta have choices ... lots of choices.
    Nope, not at all. But we have to understand, we can't harden everything, the way we normally do in this country. Cops and security can't be everywhere, all the time. This guy buzzed in and was allowed through a locked door, correct? That's the story I got. Maybe it's since changed.

    I have been saying for a long time, schools would get hit hard, but by different people.
    Anyway...What makes the most sense? I dunno. While I think we should probably take a lesson from Israel on this one, we won't. Too many people in this country can't get past the gun.

  11. #265
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    I heard he shot his way through the glass door. Still lots of misinfo floating around, so I don't know what actually took place.
    pgrass101 likes this.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  12. #266
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    He shot his way through a locked back door is now the official story. he was not buzzed in and he had no connection to the school.

    You can thank the news media who is more concerned with being first than being right
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  13. #267
    Senior Member Array zamboni's Avatar
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    Well after just listening to Obama assign Biden to handle the gun issue. He did say he wants something to look at in Jan.

    But during the media's integration, on the gun subject, he alluded to a couple ah months instead of weeks?

    So contemplating the history of the speed of Government's movement, it could be months before they even have any ideas to talk about and, they will still have to make it through the process, before anything hit's Obama's quill.

    Looks like the panic = purchasing, should been eluded for a while.

  14. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirearmsForSale View Post
    I hear rumors that they would just try to stop trading and purchasing without going through a background check (basically get rid of the selling of guns at flea markets)
    Of course you would be okay with that, you have your FFL.

    If I want to sell one of my guns to my neighbor why should I not be allowed to?
    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

  15. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnI View Post
    If I want to sell one of my guns to my neighbor why should I not be allowed to?
    Because you can't be trusted and I don't need a good reason. Assimilate or be punished.
    DontTreadOnI and skatalite like this.

  16. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post

    Our teachers are for the most part young men and women with little interest in becoming armed security officers for their school.

    Those are just two basic facts that need to be considered when talking about solutions, because neither would actually
    be something that could be accomplished. Particularly, you will find few women who teach elementary school willing to
    take on such a role. Heck, even in the airline industry relatively few pilots actually applied to take the training necessary
    to keep a gun in the cockpit.
    I would have thought this also. When I and some other faculty decided to obtain CCW permits, I was surprised at the number of faculty and spouses who jumped at the chance, most of whom were female. A fellow faculty member who taught welding and his brother in law (police officer) ran a CCW course and offered to give a discount to other employees who were interested. They had a full class in a matter of days. Granted, this was at a college, not an elementary school but still there was way more interest than I ever expected.

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