Obama's speech

This is a discussion on Obama's speech within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Let's not kid ourselves. We should have known that 4 years ago. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but even I knew that....

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Thread: Obama's speech

  1. #76
    GH
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    Let's not kid ourselves. We should have known that 4 years ago. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but even I knew that.
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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by GH View Post
    Let's not kid ourselves. We should have known that 4 years ago. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but even I knew that.
    We should have. But then we were focused on the argument that he would never do anything crazy, like starting a march toward nationalized health care. I mean, that was just nuts, right? He would never do that.

    The House of Reps better show more backbone than they have in these recent "fiscal cliff" negotiations.....but I fear they will cave here also.

    I think we are hosed. I think this president, at the end of his term, will have transformed America into just another European state. Healthcare + progressively high tax rate + (now) gun restrictions.

  4. #78
    Distinguished Member Array kapnketel's Avatar
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    My thoughts exactly:

    Never Let a Horror Go To Waste
    Pistology likes this.
    I'd rather be lucky than good any day

    There's nothing that will change someone's moral outlook quicker than cash in large sums.

    Majority rule only works if you're also considering individual rights. Because you can't have five wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for supper.

  5. #79
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    As horrible as all these mass shootings are. The causalities of these are relatively low compared to the dirt bags shooting each other on the streets all day. Where is the outcry from the Brady bunch and antis pushing for protection of those people? I may be wrong with this statement, but I have never heard the Republications come out after a shooting and say NO we will not support new gun laws. However after every one the Liberals come out screaming that we need to ban guns before the blood was even dry. I don't think anyone on here can honestly say they don't want a safer country for our children, but we have a different feelings as to how we go about doing it. Correct me if I'm wrong with this statement, that these so called assault weapons attribute to approx 1% of all causalities per year and are used very rarely in a shooting event? All I think the Liberals really want is the American people to think they are doing something to protect them, when really they are not doing a dang thing.
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  6. #80
    Member Array DandLfam's Avatar
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    Email, fax, write, any means of conversation... send your representatives your opinion. Stand up for our rights. It literally takes minutes to do so. We need to unite..
    EDC: M&P 9*2
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  7. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    Well, I have to disagree here with you on several points.

    Historically, there was not a great deal of difference, (hard-ware style wise), between the rifles carried by the British military and what our civilians carried/used during the time our Constitution was written.

    I grew up in an era when many, many households had assualt rifles in the closets--they were surplus WWII M-1 Carbines, and M1 Garands, and we didn't need to have schools locked down.

    Additionally, according the the police briefing I saw on the news today by the CT State Police, they say that the shooter had, Multiple, multiple magazines for both the Glock 10mm and the Sig 9mm. So, even if he had not had the AR, he still could have wreaked the same amount of destruction. Had he left the AR in his mom's car, he could have taken the shotgun in its place...........

    He was 20 yrs old, so it was already illegal for him to have the handguns. What does it matter if you are killed by a .223, a 10mm or a 9mm????
    They (the news outlets, senators ect...) Are making sure they cover every type of weapon. Notice lately Handguns have been brought up a lot? IF they dont outlaw all firearms, I would imagine they will try to outlaw GLOCK as there has been much talk about them in the past year.

  8. #82
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    Obama's speech

    when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

  9. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogien View Post
    I still believe that if the gun owning community came forward and said "This Sort of Thing Will Not Be Allowed If We Can Help It" followed by some self policing and perhaps installing some self imposed rules that we'd be seen as reasonable people. We would end up looking good, we'd be doing good and most importantly we wouldn't be marginalizing gun owners of every type, race and political orientation. Time is running out so we either do something or brace for rules to be imposed upon us. We have a problem and children have died. We, as a community, should really work together and come up with some ideas for what we can do to both protect the 2A as well as the rites of unarmed men, women and especially Children.

    I don't know what the solution actually is but I'd really like to have a productive discussion with the rest of the community.
    I agree and will go one step further, The real danger is losing the 2nd A completely. At least one constitutional amendment has been repealed in the past. Why is that? Because the majority of folks in the country at a given point in time felt the amendment was ill conceived. It's only going to take a few more of these tragic events and you might see a move to repeal 2A. Normal (and I don't mean the usual anti 2A) folks just won't stand for these killings and our community's same old response. The NRA should LEAD a discussion on sensible gun control, not REACT with their usual stance. And yes, I'm an NRA member.

    What might be sensibly done? IMHO, banning production of large magazines going forward doesn't harm our sport in the slightest, perhaps limits on the number of guns one can buy in a month, perhaps penalties for those don't properly secure their weapons (if this kid's mother would have had her guns locked up or secured this tragedy may not have happened). I could go on. Now, those of you who believe if you give an inch it is the beginning of the end, won't like any of these ideas. And yes there are a ton of details and what ifs. So don't beat me up on the details. They would need to be worked out.

    But think about the opportunities that a full and open discussion brings. Perhaps some of what I mentioned could be negotiated in exchange for a uniform 50 state concealed carry law.

    To everyone fixed in their positions, don't underestimate the changing dynamics here. I think major change is on the horizon. Managing it and steering it in our direction is the key to success. The opportunities are many if we step up as a group. The NRA is the only one positioned to do so. Don't forget to contact them.

  10. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplain Scott View Post
    Well, I have to disagree here with you on several points.

    Historically, there was not a great deal of difference, (hard-ware style wise), between the rifles carried by the British military and what our civilians carried/used during the time our Constitution was written.

    I grew up in an era when many, many households had assualt rifles in the closets--they were surplus WWII M-1 Carbines, and M1 Garands, and we didn't need to have schools locked down.

    Additionally, according the the police briefing I saw on the news today by the CT State Police, they say that the shooter had, Multiple, multiple magazines for both the Glock 10mm and the Sig 9mm. So, even if he had not had the AR, he still could have wreaked the same amount of destruction. Had he left the AR in his mom's car, he could have taken the shotgun in its place...........

    He was 20 yrs old, so it was already illegal for him to have the handguns. What does it matter if you are killed by a .223, a 10mm or a 9mm????
    The Garand has been called the greatest battle rifle of all time. Look up the capacity-- 8.

    It was good enough for Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Tarawa, Korea.

    Sorry folks, I'm off from the crowd on high cap magazines. They facilitate high casualty numbers at mass
    shootings by crazies and have very little benefit for HD or SD. In many years of reading posts
    on Defensive Carry, I can't recall a single incident in which someone posted here about a protracted
    fire fight in a HD or SD situation.

    Yes there are many other things besides magazine capacity limits and gun control which need to be done,
    but if everyone puts up the maximum resistance to each and every proposal, nothing will be done.

    We'll oppose changes to magazine capacity. Others will oppose changes to involuntary commitment laws. Others
    will oppose turning schools into prisons. Others will oppose arming teachers. Others will oppose the use or deployment
    of school resource officers (I hate that euphemism-- the placement of cops in elementary schools), and
    when we all get done NOT compromising on anything our kids and our shoppers at malls will be just as vulnerable
    in the future and we will have many more similar incidents.

    It is time to get off the pot as they say, and we gun owners are going to have to be a bit more reasonable and cooperative
    about well intentioned efforts instead of merely knee jerk sayers of NO!
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  11. #85
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    The Left politcizing this tragedy-Well that's the Left.Communist pigs,all of them,and the so called "republican" party in lockstep!! We no longer have a two-party system.They all have abandoned thier Oath for self-serving goals.John Boehner is a DISGRACE!!! Either Obama's well armed "civil defense force",or blue helmets on our soil soon.It's beatable if only people will stick together..I will not give up mine without a fight.

  12. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkerdriver View Post
    The Left politcizing this tragedy-Well that's the Left.Communist pigs,all of them,and the so called "republican" party in lockstep!! We no longer have a two-party system.They all have abandoned thier Oath for self-serving goals.John Boehner is a DISGRACE!!! Either Obama's well armed "civil defense force",or blue helmets on our soil soon.It's beatable if only people will stick together..I will not give up mine without a fight.
    Get a grip.
    suntzu and rammerjammer like this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  13. #87
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    Re: Obama's speech

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkerdriver View Post
    The Left politcizing this tragedy-Well that's the Left.Communist pigs,all of them,and the so called "republican" party in lockstep!! We no longer have a two-party system.They all have abandoned thier Oath for self-serving goals.John Boehner is a DISGRACE!!! Either Obama's well armed "civil defense force",or blue helmets on our soil soon.It's beatable if only people will stick together..I will not give up mine without a fight.
    This is the kind of stuff that makes gun owners look bad and crazy.

    Hopyard: While I don't totally agree with you thank you for sounding reasonable and sane about it.

  14. #88
    Member Array mnmbrewing's Avatar
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    I am on the fence here. Banning a mag just because it holds X rounds? What's next? The fact that it is a semi auto? My hollow points? How long does a mag change really take for someone with a few minutes of practice? Mag capacity will not solve the issue. The last two shootings were by people who had stolen the guns. As was said in this thread. This guy killed his sleeping mother and stole her guns. There have been no reports that I have seen that explain how she stored her guns. For all we know her son may have been to the range with her on a regular basis and had complete access to them. Federal law says you cannot buy handguns if you are under 21. However that does not prevent you from owning one. During my last trip to my LGS there was a gentleman there purchasing a SR1911. He stated it was for his grandson's 16th birthday present. He buys all his grandkids a handgun for that birthday. I thought handgun ownership started at 18 but maybe I am wrong. Either way I can only hope those kids are trained in the use and all safety procedures associated with gun ownership or the parents keep them in a safe. The answer is not eliminating guns altogether but keeping them out of the hands of those that will do harm with them. Once I figure out how to do that I am going to solve world hunger...
    Eldon Hickey likes this.

  15. #89
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    Everyone remotely involved in this tragedy....media, politicians, first responders, families, citizens close to the area....are all acting in the realm of extreme emotion right now, and understandably so. There are those, however, that have seized upon this horrific event to use it as a political club to advance their longstanding, liberal, anti-gun agenda. I speak specifically to the likes of Feinstein, Bloomberg and even Obama. It is truly disgusting to witness this, even before the first victim is laid to rest.

    This is not a gun issue. It is a societal issue. Anyone rememeber Oklahoma City? The events of 09/11? Thousands killed, not a gun in sight. The crazies who seek to commit mass murder will always have tools at their disposal to accomplish their sick plans, guns or no guns. The bigger picture is what has changed in U.S. society and how do we as a nation effectively address the root cause of this behavior. In nations such as Switzerland, every household has a gun (most are military weapons), yet you don't hear of this type of behavior. Blaming guns for this problem is like blaming cars for DUI's.

    What to do?..... 1. Well, if you are not already, join the NRA. They have an even bigger fight on their hands now. 2. Write your Representatives and Senators....TODAY!

    We can only hope that there is time for everyone to get through the coming weeks and that this is approached and analyzed by cooler-headed, thinking minds truly seeking a solution to violent behavior rather than reaction-thinking, short sighted individuals with a political agenda to destroy the Second Amendment. You cannot legislate sanity.
    "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

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  16. #90
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    Today will be the day I write my state and federal representatives, and the President of the United States.

    I will write today to remind them each, that they swore an oath to "...defend the Constitution of the United States..." And, that they have so sworn at least once in their lives. And that they swore that oath before they enforced any law, fought any battle, wrote, or voted on, any legislation.

    I will write today to recall for them that the Second Amendment of that Constitution reads as follows:

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    I will write today to inform them that the laws in this country which infringe on the right of the people to keep and bear arms are the very laws which allow for the random, violent, and insanely driven slaughter of innocents in public spaces, in churches, and in schools.

    I will write today to inform these elected officials that past failures to defend the Constitution, are in some way, responsible for this latest slaughter, and many of the others that precede it. If for no other reason that such failure usurps the "security of a free State" by allowing madmen and criminals to go armed with no regard for the laws and restrictions imposed on the law abiding and infringing on the rights of those who would defend themselves and their loved ones.

    I will write today to remind them that the innocence of all the citizens of this great country "has been torn away." That we all now see that Evil is indeed loosed in the world.

    I will write today saying that now is not the time to beat our swords into plowshares, but to "sell our cloaks and buy a sword" to protect the innocent from the Evil in the world.

    I will write today that it is certainly not the time to lay our swords at the foot of Evil and bow to it... It is time to do all we can to stop it. We stop nothing by surrender.

    “Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” Winston Churchill

    “The cost of freedom is always high, but Americans have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender, or submission.” John F. Kennedy
    OD* and velo99 like this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

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