Obama's speech

This is a discussion on Obama's speech within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As Rahm Emanuel has so infamously said "Never let a crisis go to waste." The liberals and the gun haters out there are going to ...

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  1. #106
    Distinguished Member Array Hodad's Avatar
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    As Rahm Emanuel has so infamously said "Never let a crisis go to waste."

    The liberals and the gun haters out there are going to ride this Conn. tragedy for all it is worth. Count on it!!!

    Never mind that Conneticutt is in the top three or four strictest states when it comes to gun restrictions. It just demonstrates that stricter gun
    laws do not work very well.

    As I have stated on another thread I think the "haters" are going to attack ammunition as a way to skirt the 2nd amendment but still get their way.

    As some posters have indicated, mags with a lesser capacity do not bother me that much.

    In fact, I keep a 20 round magazine in my AR as opposed to a 30 rounder just because it is easier to handle and manipulate. I have 16 round
    magazines for my SW99, but keep ten rounders in that one. My SIG has a 10 round magazine. I just carry extra mags.

    The problem and the fear is that once the "haters" get one victory they will continue to demand more and more restrictions.

    The notorious slippery slope.

    Here is what I think will happen: ammo restrictions, capacity restrictions, more in depth background checks for purchase and licenses. The one I fear the most is the ammo restrictions. Capacity restrictions and tougher background checks don't particularly bother me.
    "Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"

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  3. #107
    Member Array llmstratocaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Had he been forced to reload again and again and again and again, there is a chance he might have been stopped before
    it got so horrifically horrendous. (Of course even 1 casualty is horrifically horrendous, but I'm getting at what enabled the carnage.)
    I understand what you're getting at but it still just looks like splitting hairs to me. Assuming by "reload" you mean dropping the empty mag and replacing it with a new one, that takes a matter of seconds.

  4. #108
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    Liberals don't care for kids while they are still in the womb.
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  5. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    It is time to get off the pot as they say, and we gun owners are going to have to be a bit more reasonable and cooperative
    about well intentioned efforts instead of merely knee jerk sayers of NO!
    a. the op titles this 'obama's speech' , i figure this was about his speech. I thought it was a pretty good speech. It wasn't specifically about what will happen to your firearms, but it addressed the tragedy. If the only thing you heard was specifically about what happens to your guns, you are being selfish in the face of this.

    b. the people who always write, 'shall not be infringed'. sorry to tell you guys, except for a few places, it has been infringed by readings and decisions from the high court for a really long time now. You can't get a firearm if you are under 21, you have been infringed; if you need to get a license for it, you have been infringed, etc. etc. etc on the restrictions placed on ownership, carry and other issues.

    c. if you really want to make changes, you need to compromise. that is how all bills get passed. Neither side gets everything they want, but each gets enough to claim a victory and it is usually good for the majority of the country.

    So why not come up with something like, 'going foward, to get a license you must a test showing that you are competent to handle a firearm. make it a national test. most states already require this, although in many states it is BS regarding what you learn, no shooting to show you how to actually use the firearm, take it apart, etc. I envision something that is kind of like the training you would get in the military, and in fact, if you have served, you are exempt from this.

    In exchange for this, showing the nation that gun owners are serious about the safety and competency, once you have this license, you have an un restricted carry anywhere to any state anytime.

    I am not saying this is my well thought out idea, but I just figure if you are going to have things changed, why not take the bull by the horns and turn it into something positive.
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  6. #110
    Member Array GrandZJ's Avatar
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    I'm not willing to compromise on my rights. Nobody should. If everyone bends over and says okay to the demands for more gun restrictions and bans, you might as well go down to the local PD and surrender your firearms now.
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  7. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandZJ View Post
    I'm not willing to compromise on my rights. Nobody should. If everyone bends over and says okay to the demands for more gun restrictions and bans, you might as well go down to the local PD and surrender your firearms now.
    And what anti-gun, anti-2nd Amendment sheeple aren't willing to acknowledge, is that the 2nd Amendment is the ONLY protection against the Regime, any Regime from summarily taking away all the rest of our rights. Rhetorical question: How long do you think the 1st Amendment will stand after the 2nd Amendment is done away with? And as a follow up question, after the 2nd Amendment is gone, the leftists have won and all the guns have been confiscated, when the 1st Amendment is moved on and they take it away, if no one in the population is armed, how are you going to fight to keep it? Sticks and rocks? Good luck with that.

    These sheeple are too stupid to even try to argue with.

  8. #112
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    I'll say it again, compromise got us where we are today.
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  9. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman View Post
    a. the op titles this 'obama's speech' , i figure this was about his speech. I thought it was a pretty good speech. It wasn't specifically about what will happen to your firearms, but it addressed the tragedy. If the only thing you heard was specifically about what happens to your guns, you are being selfish in the face of this.

    b. the people who always write, 'shall not be infringed'. sorry to tell you guys, except for a few places, it has been infringed by readings and decisions from the high court for a really long time now. You can't get a firearm if you are under 21, you have been infringed; if you need to get a license for it, you have been infringed, etc. etc. etc on the restrictions placed on ownership, carry and other issues.

    c. if you really want to make changes, you need to compromise. that is how all bills get passed. Neither side gets everything they want, but each gets enough to claim a victory and it is usually good for the majority of the country.

    So why not come up with something like, 'going foward, to get a license you must a test showing that you are competent to handle a firearm. make it a national test. most states already require this, although in many states it is BS regarding what you learn, no shooting to show you how to actually use the firearm, take it apart, etc. I envision something that is kind of like the training you would get in the military, and in fact, if you have served, you are exempt from this.

    In exchange for this, showing the nation that gun owners are serious about the safety and competency, once you have this license, you have an un restricted carry anywhere to any state anytime.

    I am not saying this is my well thought out idea, but I just figure if you are going to have things changed, why not take the bull by the horns and turn it into something positive.
    You're proposing a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The shooters in the most recent shootings weren't incompetent, well at least in the Sandy Hook shootings, they were insane. Sick, twisted little punks who wanted to go down in a blaze of glory and headlines. Please explain how a national competency test addresses those issues?
    Pistology, Hopyard and msgt/ret like this.

  10. #114
    Member Array boatman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billb1960 View Post
    You're proposing a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. The shooters in the most recent shootings weren't incompetent, well at least in the Sandy Hook shootings, they were insane. Sick, twisted little punks who wanted to go down in a blaze of glory and headlines. Please explain how a national competency test addresses those issues?
    Nothing address these issues. If a crazy person wants to kill a bunch of people, they will find the way, whether with a gun, knife, or sharpened stick. No legislation addresses this.

    What I am saying is that if you think you are going to lose your rights, and my personal opinion is that things will definitely change, broker a deal that gives you something. You have to address something. Many people without guns fear that the people who have them are not trained, responsible, etc. I think there are 50M households with a gun. How amany truly know what they are doing, actively pursue what to do, and on. How many do you see at your local gun range who don't even follow a few of the absolute safety rules. I know at my range, lots don't know or follow them. The recent accidental killing of that 9 yr old boy by his father, when his father's gun 'just went off'. Dad didn't know there was round in the chamber. Didn't have it pointed in a safe directions. And I am assuming somehow the trigger got pulled, as guns don't 'just go off'.

    So the public has a perception of irresponsibility of gun owners, and irresponsible and guns usually leads to a death. Convince the public that gun owners are responsible. In fact, show them we are. My off the cuff solution was to license it, I am not saying it is the right solution, or only solution. But just saying 'guns don't kill people, ' is a tired old slogan and it isn't working to convince the public.

    If you are going to be given lemons, you can complain about it, or make lemonade. My belief is that lemons are coming.
    Ogien and Eldon Hickey like this.

  11. #115
    Ex Member Array Ogien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman View Post
    a. the op titles this 'obama's speech' , i figure this was about his speech. I thought it was a pretty good speech. It wasn't specifically about what will happen to your firearms, but it addressed the tragedy. If the only thing you heard was specifically about what happens to your guns, you are being selfish in the face of this.

    b. the people who always write, 'shall not be infringed'. sorry to tell you guys, except for a few places, it has been infringed by readings and decisions from the high court for a really long time now. You can't get a firearm if you are under 21, you have been infringed; if you need to get a license for it, you have been infringed, etc. etc. etc on the restrictions placed on ownership, carry and other issues.

    c. if you really want to make changes, you need to compromise. that is how all bills get passed. Neither side gets everything they want, but each gets enough to claim a victory and it is usually good for the majority of the country.

    So why not come up with something like, 'going foward, to get a license you must a test showing that you are competent to handle a firearm. make it a national test. most states already require this, although in many states it is BS regarding what you learn, no shooting to show you how to actually use the firearm, take it apart, etc. I envision something that is kind of like the training you would get in the military, and in fact, if you have served, you are exempt from this.

    In exchange for this, showing the nation that gun owners are serious about the safety and competency, once you have this license, you have an un restricted carry anywhere to any state anytime.

    I am not saying this is my well thought out idea, but I just figure if you are going to have things changed, why not take the bull by the horns and turn it into something positive.
    I am very much in agreement with you but I would like to point out AGAIN that if we (the gun owning community) are the ones to come up with the proposed solution we are going to seem like responsible citizens who have a heart and recognize that there is a fundamental problem. Sticking our fingers in our ears and loudly proclaiming "I Can't Hear You" is just going to marginalize us even more until such a time when nobody even cares what gun owners have to say. We have to stop coming across as "Gun Nuts" and putting our desires ahead of the rites of unarmed men, women and children.

    I am NOT Anti Gun or Anti-2A but if I am honest with myself I can clearly see that there is a problem in this nation. Our fellow Citizens are getting mowed down in places that should be safe, over and over and over again. To say that we care more about an extended magazine or specific weapon above our fellow countrymen is the antithesis of patriotic. We are a great nation because of our people.

    Lets take a leadership role and as a community discuss what we CAN do instead of what we REFUSE to do.

    Our 2A rights are to be protected in so far that they do not infringe on the rights of other citizens. I'm not blaming anything on an inanimate item such as a gun and I recognize that the problem extends far into the realms of medicine and mental health but the fact remains that a part of this problem does land squarely in our laps and if we feel like Americans that we'd be discussing what we can do to help prevent future such massacres from our end instead of circling the wagons. Lets protect the 2A as well as the rights of every other man, woman and child in this country.
    Hopyard and Eldon Hickey like this.

  12. #116
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    c. if you really want to make changes, you need to compromise. that is how all bills get passed. Neither side gets everything they want, but each gets enough to claim a victory and it is usually good for the majority of the country.
    Don't tell me we need to compromise. On 12/15/1791 our forefathers had enough foresight to draft and approve our right to bear arms and their should be no compromise.
    Pistology, Billb1960 and msgt/ret like this.
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  13. #117
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    Ok here is a question for all of you....Everyone says to run out buy all the high capacity mags you can find and buy all you can afford.

    Now if the government puts a limit of 10 round mags for our glocks or other guns, and tell us we cannot legally carry with mags exceeding the 10 rounds or whatever they supposedly decide on (I imagine it will be different on most all guns).....WHAT GOOD IS 35 High Capacity Mags going to do you sitting at home in a dresser drawer or gun safe????

    It will be illegal to carry them!!!!

    Think you will sell them to people at 3,4,5 times the price when the ban starts?? Guess what, it's just as illegal for that person to carry them too!!!

    Why spend tons of money to buy something that will sit around and collect dust or be limited to range use only.
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  14. #118
    Ex Member Array Ogien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckusaret View Post
    Don't tell me we need to compromise. On 12/15/1791 our forefathers had enough foresight to draft and approve our right to bear arms and their should be no compromise.
    The Supreme Court has made clear time and time again that your rights are to be protected in so far as they do not infringe on the rights of others so your statement is false as the Constitution gives the Supreme Court the power to make that decision.

    Also, the same forefathers gave the Supreme Court that ability. Just sayin...
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  15. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman View Post
    Nothing address these issues. If a crazy person wants to kill a bunch of people, they will find the way, whether with a gun, knife, or sharpened stick. No legislation addresses this.

    What I am saying is that if you think you are going to lose your rights, and my personal opinion is that things will definitely change, broker a deal that gives you something. You have to address something. Many people without guns fear that the people who have them are not trained, responsible, etc. I think there are 50M households with a gun. How amany truly know what they are doing, actively pursue what to do, and on. How many do you see at your local gun range who don't even follow a few of the absolute safety rules. I know at my range, lots don't know or follow them. The recent accidental killing of that 9 yr old boy by his father, when his father's gun 'just went off'. Dad didn't know there was round in the chamber. Didn't have it pointed in a safe directions. And I am assuming somehow the trigger got pulled, as guns don't 'just go off'.

    So the public has a perception of irresponsibility of gun owners, and irresponsible and guns usually leads to a death. Convince the public that gun owners are responsible. In fact, show them we are. My off the cuff solution was to license it, I am not saying it is the right solution, or only solution. But just saying 'guns don't kill people, ' is a tired old slogan and it isn't working to convince the public.

    If you are going to be given lemons, you can complain about it, or make lemonade. My belief is that lemons are coming.
    Don't try and lump a father's accidental shooting of his son in with an evil person who wanted to kill people.

    Don't try and lump the law abiding gun owners who have never killed another human being in with an evil person who wanted to kill people.

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    The 2nd Amendment does not mention guns, it mentions Arms. Not guns, not some guns, not some magazines, not swords...ARMS...any type of Arms.

    Why should I give up all or part of my rights when I have done nothing wrong?

    Why do you want to strip me of my unalienable rights?

    Rights don't come from government or any man they come from a higher power.

    You are free to use your rights how you like and I am free to use all my rights how I like. If you don't want 30 round mags, Regulate yourself. Don't tell me that I can't do something or buy something because you don't want them or because some evil person stole something.

    If you use that logic, we should ban all cars because evil people steal cars and get into accidents and kill people. Oh, by the way, evil people also steal guns and kill people with those stolen guns.

    Relinquishing Rights is not the solution.

    The problem isn't that I have too many Rights.

    The problem is evil people doing evil things.

    Focus on stopping evil people.
    Last edited by 1MoreGoodGuy; December 17th, 2012 at 08:52 PM.
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  16. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by llmstratocaster View Post
    I understand what you're getting at but it still just looks like splitting hairs to me. Assuming by "reload" you mean dropping the empty mag and replacing it with a new one, that takes a matter of seconds.
    Yes, a matter of seconds--- a jogger doing 6 minute miles covers 8.8 feet in a second. In a matter of seconds a defender
    in an adrenalin rush could have covered enough ground to plow him over. Grapple with him for 3 more seconds and another
    adult could have jumped in.

    I realize elementary school teachers are not trained to fight, but they are would be momma bears. So yes, a few seconds
    could have made a difference. We don't know because we have no clue how, or where, or when the 6 adults died and what
    if any effort they were making to defend themselves and the children.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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