School Principals Should be Armed!!

This is a discussion on School Principals Should be Armed!! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Arming the crossing guards is the low-hanging fruit here. They're familiar with what the parents look like, because they see them everyday. They're usually older ...

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Thread: School Principals Should be Armed!!

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    Arming the crossing guards is the low-hanging fruit here. They're familiar with what the parents look like, because they see them everyday. They're usually older people, and thus is more likely to be mature. Plus, they've a good view.
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    Alternately, for those with a tool shed, ideas, or creative loved ones to tell..


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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array bzdog's Avatar
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    I think it would be good for schools to allow voluntary concealed carry modeled on the Texas "Guardian Plan". However, this should not be part of the principal or teachers job description. You don't want people carrying who are not so inclined.

    If people are serious about security at schools, they need to put their money where their mouth is and employ armed police to provide security as well as other harding measures as noted in the Dave Grossman talk noted in the other thread.

    I suspect if would-be assailants knew that instead of a school full of defenseless people and children, that there were a few police officers with AR-15s and potentially a sprinkling of other armed individuals, they'd pick another target.

    -john

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    ...a principal with a paddle...
    A Paddle? Dang OldVet, you're as seasoned as I am! The nearest a modern principal gets to a paddle anymore is the school PingPong Tourney. Even a kayak paddle in their possession is grounds for immediate dismissal & preemptive lawsuit avoidance.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  5. #19
    Member Array Bill340's Avatar
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    In the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre, leave it to the state-run media and politicians who surround themselves with armed security at all times to offer up exactly the wrong prescription to stopping the slaughter of more innocents.

    It was as predictable as clockwork that those who seek a state monopoly on firepower would exploit a tragedy like this to push for unconstitutional, counter-productive, anti-American solutions to a mess they helped create.

    Let me give you some things to think about – things you won’t likely hear or read elsewhere.

    First, consider why Israel, a nation surrounded by madmen who seek to kill innocent Jewish children any way they can, has rarely seen the kinds of mayhem America witnessed in Newtown, Conn. I can show you in one simple photograph that doesn’t require any further explanation.

    It’s a fact that many mass murders like the one we witnessed at the Sandy Hook Elementary School were averted because innocent children and adults were not left defenseless. Here are just a handful of examples:

    On Oct. 1, 1997, Luke Woodham, 16, part of a satanic cult, stabbed and bludgeoned his mother before driving her car to Pearl High School in Pearl, Miss., where he shot dead two students and wounded seven others with a rifle he made no attempt to conceal. He then got back into his mother’s car and planned to go to Pearl Junior High School to kill some more. But assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieved a .45-caliber pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham.
    On Jan. 16, 2002, Peter Odighizuwa, 43, of Nigeria, went to the Appalachian School of Law campus in Virginia with a handgun and killed three and wounded three others. At the sound of gunfire, two other students – both police officers – retrieved guns from their cars. Meanwhile, another police officer and former Marine jumped Odighizuwa and disarmed him by the time the other officers got to the scene.
    On Aug. 23, 1995, a band of crack cocaine addicts entered a store in Muskegon, Mich., with a plan to kill everyone and steal enough cash and jewelry to feed their habit. One member of the gang shot store owner Clare Cooper in the back four times. He still managed to grab his shotgun and fire on the gang as they fled. They were all apprehended.
    On Dec. 9, 2007, a 24-year-old gunman named Matthew Murray launched an attack on the congregants of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs that left two victims dead. A former police officer, Jeanne Assam, a member of the security team for the church, shot Murray 10 times, killing him, as he was shooting at her. Murray had killed four others at a church 70 miles away earlier in the day.
    On July 24, 2012, Richard Gable Stevens rented a rifle at a shooting range in Santa Clara, Calif., and herded three employees out the door, saying he intended to kill them. One of the employees, however, was carrying a .45-caliber handgun and shot the assailant.
    On Dec. 17, 1991, two men armed with stolen pistols herded 20 customers and employees of a Shoney’s restaurant in Anniston, Ala., into a walk-in refrigerator and locked it so they could rob the establishment. However, one customer was armed with a .45-caliber handgun hidden under a table. He shot one of the gunmen dead. The other robber, who was holding the manager of the restaurant at gunpoint, began firing at the customer. But he was wounded critically by return fire, ending the incident.
    On July 13, 2009, an armed man entered the Golden Food Market in south Richmond, shooting and wounding a clerk while firing at store patrons. He was shot by another customer who had a concealed-carry permit, likely saving the lives of eight other people in the store.
    On July 29, 2012, Charles Conner shot and killed two people and their dogs at the Peach Tree RV park in Early, Texas. Vic Stacy got a call from one of the neighbors, got his .357 magnum and shot Conner in the leg. Police arrived before any further killings could take place.

    The truth is that every single day mass murders are averted by armed civilians.

    Yet, every time there is a horrendous slaughter like we saw at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, there is a knee-jerk outcry for stricter control of guns.

    Wait a minute! The perpetrator of this crime stole his weapons from his mother’s house after murdering her! He tried to buy a rifle days before, but was turned down.

    No law could have stopped that short of disarming all law-abiding Americans. And that would just mean more death and carnage – and the end of liberty for all.

    The massacre at Sandy Hook could have been minimized, if not averted completely, if just one teacher or administrator at the school was armed.

  6. #20
    Member Array brookl089's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaDawg View Post
    I'm fine with having a hired security guard in addition to allowing other school employees to arm themselves, such as allowing teachers, admins, coaches, etc. to be armed if they present proof of training (CC permit or other relevant training certificate). Making it optional would allow the anti-gun libs (who flock to the educational realm) to opt out while allowing anyone who wants to defend themselves and the children to do so.
    Agreed. Current valid CC permit & appropriate training would be a minimum requirement. There are plenty of unemployed Gulf War veterans that can fill the security guard positions.

    What we know is:
    1. It's going to happen again.
    2. Anticipate the use of assault weapon(s), body armor, high capacity ammo clips, and bombs (remember the propane tank at Columbine).
    3. With the above being said, it will take more than one security guard or police officer to adequately secure a large facility. A few teachers and administrators will need to be armed too.

    Remember one thing...every time a zombie gets cornered or senses the end is coming soon, they shoot themselves instead of going out with a blaze of glory. The only time I can remember zombies shooting it out with police is North Hollywood, CA in 1997. (these were hardcore bank robbery zombies and not like the school shooting zombies).

    In Minnesota, the security guards at my daughter's high school carry guns. They may be off duty police officers...just never asked one of them.

  7. #21
    Member Array macg19's Avatar
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    A lot of talk about this in the media and the most logical and realistic opinion was just allow CC. Don't force teachers to become security guards, just let those that feel up to it, step up (quietly). Oh, and take that freaking GFZ sign down.
    "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
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  8. #22
    Member Array Sarisataka's Avatar
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    Our principle is a sweet lady who would take all 30 rounds to protect the kids; I could never envision her pulling the trigger. Allow teachers who are trained to carry if they wish and/or dedicated armed security.
    I have seen ideas put forth to use retired LEOs or those on light duty as well.
    Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor liberty to purchase power.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post
    - Let the principal do what a principal is supposed to do... run the school. I'd rather have someone who's sole responsibility is security be armed.
    and when the one hired gun is at lunch or in the can?

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    It would take more than just the principal, more like the entire staff. And then is the staff going to be "required" to be armed? Who's going to provide the training? What about those members who don't like guns, don't want guns, refuse to carry one? There is no simple answer.
    No staff or faculty member should be forced to carry a gun if they don't want to. That's just silly to try and require it. And it is not necessary to have everyone armed either. However, there are plenty of those who would be more than willing to carry concealed while at school.

    Who's going to provide the training? Again, that's kind of a silly notion as well. All that needs to be done is to stipulate in school district policy what type of training would be required and who is to provide it. It's a simple thing to do, and there are more than enough qualified training entities and types of programs available in every state who would be more than happy to provide the mandated training for the school districts. I have absolutely no doubt the NRA would be more than happy to create an NRA certified program geared specifically for school personnel.

    That is not the issue. These are easily addressed. The issue is getting state legislators and school administrators on board with the concept in the first place.

    As we are now seeing, some states, as well as some school districts in particular are starting to address this issue. Michigan just passed a bill to allow this state wide and is just awaiting signature from their newly elected Republican governor. Utah has already addressed it. Texas seems to be starting to address it in individual school districts and I recently read the governor is on board and we can likely see Texas pass something on a state level.

    I know one of our newly elected state representatives in Missouri personally and I am working on setting up a meeting with her to address it in Missouri.

    As long as something isn't done Nationally by the administration and Congress to derail the whole issue, I think we are starting to see some positive inroads in addressing having appropriately armed and trained people in our schools.

    It's going to take time, and we are going to have to see positive results from those places who already are doing this. But I do think progress is starting to happen.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  11. #25
    Member Array Rhcmlc's Avatar
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    If only the principal is packin' heat, guess which office a gunman is gonna sneak attack first?
    "You cannot invade the mainland United States.
    There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"
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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill340 View Post
    In the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre, leave it to the state-run media and politicians who surround themselves with armed security at all times to offer up exactly the wrong prescription to stopping the slaughter of more innocents.

    It was as predictable as clockwork that those who seek a state monopoly on firepower would exploit a tragedy like this to push for unconstitutional, counter-productive, anti-American solutions to a mess they helped create.

    Let me give you some things to think about – things you won’t likely hear or read elsewhere.

    First, consider why Israel, a nation surrounded by madmen who seek to kill innocent Jewish children any way they can, has rarely seen the kinds of mayhem America witnessed in Newtown, Conn. I can show you in one simple photograph that doesn’t require any further explanation.

    It’s a fact that many mass murders like the one we witnessed at the Sandy Hook Elementary School were averted because innocent children and adults were not left defenseless. Here are just a handful of examples:

    On Oct. 1, 1997, Luke Woodham, 16, part of a satanic cult, stabbed and bludgeoned his mother before driving her car to Pearl High School in Pearl, Miss., where he shot dead two students and wounded seven others with a rifle he made no attempt to conceal. He then got back into his mother’s car and planned to go to Pearl Junior High School to kill some more. But assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieved a .45-caliber pistol from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued Woodham.
    On Jan. 16, 2002, Peter Odighizuwa, 43, of Nigeria, went to the Appalachian School of Law campus in Virginia with a handgun and killed three and wounded three others. At the sound of gunfire, two other students – both police officers – retrieved guns from their cars. Meanwhile, another police officer and former Marine jumped Odighizuwa and disarmed him by the time the other officers got to the scene.
    On Aug. 23, 1995, a band of crack cocaine addicts entered a store in Muskegon, Mich., with a plan to kill everyone and steal enough cash and jewelry to feed their habit. One member of the gang shot store owner Clare Cooper in the back four times. He still managed to grab his shotgun and fire on the gang as they fled. They were all apprehended.
    On Dec. 9, 2007, a 24-year-old gunman named Matthew Murray launched an attack on the congregants of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs that left two victims dead. A former police officer, Jeanne Assam, a member of the security team for the church, shot Murray 10 times, killing him, as he was shooting at her. Murray had killed four others at a church 70 miles away earlier in the day.
    On July 24, 2012, Richard Gable Stevens rented a rifle at a shooting range in Santa Clara, Calif., and herded three employees out the door, saying he intended to kill them. One of the employees, however, was carrying a .45-caliber handgun and shot the assailant.
    On Dec. 17, 1991, two men armed with stolen pistols herded 20 customers and employees of a Shoney’s restaurant in Anniston, Ala., into a walk-in refrigerator and locked it so they could rob the establishment. However, one customer was armed with a .45-caliber handgun hidden under a table. He shot one of the gunmen dead. The other robber, who was holding the manager of the restaurant at gunpoint, began firing at the customer. But he was wounded critically by return fire, ending the incident.
    On July 13, 2009, an armed man entered the Golden Food Market in south Richmond, shooting and wounding a clerk while firing at store patrons. He was shot by another customer who had a concealed-carry permit, likely saving the lives of eight other people in the store.
    On July 29, 2012, Charles Conner shot and killed two people and their dogs at the Peach Tree RV park in Early, Texas. Vic Stacy got a call from one of the neighbors, got his .357 magnum and shot Conner in the leg. Police arrived before any further killings could take place.

    The truth is that every single day mass murders are averted by armed civilians.

    Yet, every time there is a horrendous slaughter like we saw at the Sandy Hook Elementary School, there is a knee-jerk outcry for stricter control of guns.

    Wait a minute! The perpetrator of this crime stole his weapons from his mother’s house after murdering her! He tried to buy a rifle days before, but was turned down.

    No law could have stopped that short of disarming all law-abiding Americans. And that would just mean more death and carnage – and the end of liberty for all.

    The massacre at Sandy Hook could have been minimized, if not averted completely, if just one teacher or administrator at the school was armed.
    You're preaching to the choir here....

    But in all your examples... you never once showed where a person (especially not a member of law enforcement current or retired) armed with an AR15 or any other "assault weapon" (press definition), or a Glock with a magazine capacity of more than 10, was used to stop any of those actions...

    They will not be going after handguns, this time... they will go after "evil black guns" they will go after magazines with more than 10 rounds.

    In every case you cite a handgun was used to defend against the attack. In most cases you cite, a .45 was used... or a wheel gun.

    Even in the case of the Clackamas Mall where a CCW holder DID have a Glock with a capacity greater than 10 he did not fire a shot. for fear of collateral damage, even though he had the killer's head in his sights..

    In the case of the shooting in the theater, just next to the fast food joint, the defender had a handgun against a rifle that jammed.
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
    __________________________________________________
    "The History of our Revolution will be one continued Lye from one end to the other."
    John Adams

  13. #27
    Member Array bombard16's Avatar
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    School Principals Should be Armed!!

    As a teacher I personally would carry if I had the option. I have done a lot of thinking on the issue. I don't believe any teacher with a concealed permit should carry in the school. My ideas are that teachers should be able to take basic law enforcement training courses and be deputized as reserve officers in order to carry on campus. Teachers should only be allowed to conceal carry and the weapon should be on the teachers person at all times. No weapons in persons or teachers desks.

    I don't think I would leave my classroom in the event of a shooting at my school, but I would have the ability to protect myself and my students if someone entered my room.

    On a side note I think the lockdown philosophy needs to be readdressed. Is huddling in the corner of the room really the best way to protect students?

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Jetfuelrm's Avatar
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    I think teachers should be allowed to cc if they are willing to do it and if they are willing to have the training and show proficiency. I am not sure if that will ever happen, but what I do know is in Collier County Florida (Naples) all schools have a youth relations deputy who is employed by the sheriffs dept and is at the school everyday it is open

  15. #29
    Member Array bombard16's Avatar
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    School Principals Should be Armed!!

    All middle and high schools in my district have an LEO on campus daily. They are school resource officers. However most of there day is spent tracking down lost electronic devices and dealing with student conflicts.

  16. #30
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    One never hears about this from the media, but Utah has it correct.

    Laws Concerning the Carrying of Concealed Firearms in Utah | Armed Campuses
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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