Fighting to the Gun

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Thread: Fighting to the Gun

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Luis50's Avatar
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    Good Stuff! Thanks for posting.
    Luis

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Lima, great post and info and things for CCer's to think about. Fights are for the thinking man/women not something we can pigeon hole and be prepared.

    The having of a gun is not always the answer in all situations as the fight will be what the fight is. We as CCer's have to go with what we are given as we do set the fight situation only react to the situation. The reaction we need may very well be to fight our way to where we want the fight to start.

    This is why I see training for the fight, not just the gun so important as the fight encompasses so many factions.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfer View Post
    Frankly, the gun does not work very well if you are nostril to nostril.

    Excellent point.


    But...I DO give training and a Demo (my girlfriend has a huge supply of old purses...LOL) of shooting (revolver) through a purse @ contact range...gets a lot of "Holy Cow"s and "I never thought"s in our training classes.


    Plus, there are a lot of close-contact drills you can do with even a toy gun.

    Just a thought.



  5. #19
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    Interesting, informative post, but I would strongly discourage anyone from firing utilizing the grip shown in the photo. It ends painfully, and results in a stove-pipe.
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  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Interesting, informative post, but I would strongly discourage anyone from firing utilizing the grip shown in the photo. It ends painfully, and results in a stove-pipe.
    I would strongly recommend the first time you shoot from that grip not be in a fight for your life. As it is doable but it is doable for you?
    daddysgirl and limatunes like this.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    I would strongly recommend the first time you shoot from that grip not be in a fight for your life. As it is doable but it is doable for you?
    Give it a try.
    "Who are the ones that we kept in charge? Killers, thieves, and lawyers"

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  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Bill MO's Avatar
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    Is it something I would do in a fight for my life (and since I carry XDs, with an XD)? Most likely not!! (very hard to do with a grip safety) But one does what one must in a fight, because you do any and everything to win.
    It's gotta be who you are, not a hobby. reinman45

    "Is this persons bad behavior worth me having to kill them over?" Guantes

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    Lima, as usual, your post is thought provoking and spot on. I have been encouraging empty-handed skills since joining the forum and have just learned something I should have thought of before. The idea of wearing a gun while I train makes so much sense I'm surprised I didn't see it-duh! Thanks for the insight!

    By the way, be proud of those bruises--you earned them.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array NY27's Avatar
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    Great post. I am a Firearms Instructor and a Defensive Tactics Instructor. I have 26 years experience in Kenpo Karate, but Krav Maga is what I teach my cops. It is easy to retain as it is a basic art. Instead of having numerous defenses to 1 attack, they have 1 defense against numerous attacks. It's perfect for the cop who only gets his in-service training once or twice a year.

    I highly recommend all who carry a firearm to learn Krav Maga. I've been preaching for years that weapon retention is essential.
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    You cannot choose the conditions for a gunfight, so train in all conditions!

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill MO View Post
    Have


    Is it something I would do in a fight for my life (and since I carry XDs, with an XD)? Most likely not!! (very hard to do with a grip safety) But one does what one must in a fight, because you do any and everything to win.
    I have done it with a Glock, and the results were conclusive. Sore palm, blood blister, stove-piped round.
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  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    I have three adult daughters, all have their Green Krav Maga patches, but I doubt that they will ever become instructors. Why? They found out what boys are and found them to be more fun, all are now married. My oldest daughter also has advance degrees in Tae Kwon Do completed while we were stationed in Korea. I myself have advance degrees in the art of "Bent Elbow" that can only be obtained by attending training sessions at many different locations world wide. LOL

    I agree that the least amount of defensive action should be taken to ward off a would be attacker, but in most cases in my area it has gone poorly for the victim if he/she was not armed.

    Great post..........
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  13. #27
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    That is something I forgot to include in there.. certain firearms will not work in that grip... or at least not easily... Firearms equipped with grip safeties being a big one. 1911s would probably work but only if the thumb safety is off. Disengaging any kind of external safety in that grip would be hard.

    And you may only get one or two shots max because you very well may end up with a stoppage.. doesn't matter if you are firing right side up or upside down, really. Extreme close quarters gun fighting has a higher tendency to produce malfunctioning firearms. Clothes and positions of bodies and other factors inhibit proper ejection of spent casings, slides get pushed out of battery or clothing gets stuck in them, magazine releases can be hit. It's a free-for-all.

    Personally, I have not fired from that position but I've seen it done .. with an XD no less. Then again, the individual firing the gun had MUCH larger hands than I.. If I have the option though, I'm going to take it. If it doesn't work I'll Plan B it... clobbering time.

  14. #28
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    Excellent post, Lima!

    Here is a quote from your post that I love.

    "What many people who carry guns fail to realize is that, in many cases, the hardest part of using a firearm in self defense is actually getting to the gun."

    Until you actually experience this against force and resistance from another human being, most gun owners can not truly comprehend how complex it can be to create an opportunity to bring their gun into the fight when in close quarters. Up until October of 2011 I read about it but never received any training in it. I had taken several firearm classes, but none of them involved someone putting my hands on me. Then I started attending KM a few days a week and did some force on force classes. They honestly opened up my eyes on a whole new level.

    Again, fantastic post!

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    That is something I forgot to include in there.. certain firearms will not work in that grip... or at least not easily... Firearms equipped with grip safeties being a big one. 1911s would probably work but only if the thumb safety is off. Disengaging any kind of external safety in that grip would be hard.

    And you may only get one or two shots max because you very well may end up with a stoppage.. doesn't matter if you are firing right side up or upside down, really. Extreme close quarters gun fighting has a higher tendency to produce malfunctioning firearms. Clothes and positions of bodies and other factors inhibit proper ejection of spent casings, slides get pushed out of battery or clothing gets stuck in them, magazine releases can be hit. It's a free-for-all.

    Personally, I have not fired from that position but I've seen it done .. with an XD no less. Then again, the individual firing the gun had MUCH larger hands than I.. If I have the option though, I'm going to take it. If it doesn't work I'll Plan B it... clobbering time.
    Damn straight! If you only get to shoot him once then use it as a club.
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    And that has made all the difference.

  16. #30
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    Re: Fighting to the Gun

    Great read. Its definitely something a lot of people don't think about. They seem to envision a "..I drew my weapon and fired, end of" scenarios.

    It sure can become a hell of a free for all since you wont be the only one fighting for your life..
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin

    "Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis

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