Mental Illness & FL Conceal Carry License

This is a discussion on Mental Illness & FL Conceal Carry License within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by mastercapt heres the criterial for involuntary placement in an institution from Florida state stautes: 394.467 Involuntary inpatient placement.(1) CRITERIA.A person may be placed in ...

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Thread: Mental Illness & FL Conceal Carry License

  1. #16
    New Member Array dx552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastercapt View Post
    heres the criterial for involuntary placement in an institution from Florida state stautes:
    394.467 Involuntary inpatient placement.(1) CRITERIA.A person may be placed in involuntary inpatient placement for treatment upon a finding of the court by clear and convincing evidence that:
    (a) He or she is mentally ill and because of his or her mental illness:
    1.a. He or she has refused voluntary placement for treatment after sufficient and conscientious explanation and disclosure of the purpose of placement for treatment; or
    b. He or she is unable to determine for himself or herself whether placement is necessary; and
    2.a. He or she is manifestly incapable of surviving alone or with the help of willing and responsible family or friends, including available alternative services, and, without treatment, is likely to suffer from neglect or refuse to care for himself or herself, and such neglect or refusal poses a real and present threat of substantial harm to his or her well-being; or
    b. There is substantial likelihood that in the near future he or she will inflict serious bodily harm on himself or herself or another person, as evidenced by recent behavior causing, attempting, or threatening such harm; and
    (b) All available less restrictive treatment alternatives which would offer an opportunity for improvement of his or her condition have been judged to be inappropriate.
    Google: "florida state statutes: chapter 394" for the whole speil
    My daughter volintraily commited herself for a week for simular circumstances. She did the research afterward and it (she said) does not disqualify her from having a CWP. However, it does disqualify ger from adopting a child..... Go figure.....
    Now all that said, you may want to enquire about the legality of having a Fl permit and using recipricy in a state where you can't qualify for that states permit. ...Just saying....

    Thank you for that

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  3. #17
    Member Array minimalbrat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Whether you can get a FL CWFL is between you and the Dept. of Agr & Cust Services.

    Your past history aside, I am not in favor of states issuing permits/license to non-residents for use in any other state. In simple terms, I feel a FL license issued to a non-resident should only be good in FL. Again, your personal issue is between you and the issuing authorities.

    In general, FL will accept reciprocy with states that will do likewise. FL does not honor third party permits, such as a NY resident with a VA license. It's either a FL license or one from the state in which one resides.

    Good luck in your endeavour with FL and IL.
    In Ohio you have to live here to get a CCl. Our state is a residence only state. I have never understood living in one state but getting your ccl from another state. This would make sense only if you were going to be in a state that doesn't accept your states ccl so you would need to have one for that particular state. If I want to carry in Texas I have to get a ccl from Texas as they do not accept Ohio ccl and it should only be good when I am in Texas. I don't care what the reason if you can't get the ccl from the state you live in you shouldn't be carrying in your state.
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimalbrat View Post
    I don't care what the reason if you can't get the ccl from the state you live in you shouldn't be carrying in your state.
    Here's your state's requirement as it pertains to the OP's issue:

    (13) (a) Have you ever been adjudicated as mentally incompetent or mentally defective?
    (b) Have you ever been committed to a mental institution?
    (c) Have you ever been involuntarily committed to a mental hospital or facility for purposes other
    than observation?
    (d) Have you ever been adjudicated as mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated as
    incompetent to manage your own affairs or ever been committed to a mental institution?

    Here's Illinois' requirement just to obtain a FOID card:

    In the past 5 years, have you been a patient in a mental institution or any medical facility used primarily for the care or
    treatment of persons for mental illness?

    The OP would qualify for a permit in your state, yet the OP would not even qualify for a FOID in IL for a voluntary stay. I more than understand the OP's issue, appears you don't.
    Last edited by RSV; December 22nd, 2012 at 05:12 PM.

  5. #19
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    "(b) Have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

    Because this doesn't differenciate between voluntarily or non-voluntarily or "committed" versus "admitted" this may be a sticking point.
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  6. #20
    RSV
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    "(b) Have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

    Because this doesn't differenciate between voluntarily or non-voluntarily or "committed" versus "admitted" this may be a sticking point.
    Thank you for your service OldVet

    BATF definition of committed: BATFE Letter Re: Mental Disqualification - Gun Owners of America

    This term means a formal commitment of a person to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment to a mental institution involuntarily. The term also includes a commitment for mental defectiveness or mental illness, and commitments for other reasons such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or any voluntary admission to a mental institution.

    ATF has historically interpreted these provisions as constituting two distinct prohibitions. Each prohibition represents a separate disqualification. For example, a “commitment” means a formal commitment, not a voluntary stay. Excluded are stays for observation only. Nor does the term include a stay in a mental institution that never involved any form of adjudication by a lawful authority. However, a stay that began as a voluntary stay may be subsequently transformed into a disqualifying stay if a court, board, or other lawful authority makes a determination that the person is a danger to self or others. Moreover, a voluntary stay that is by itself not disabling could be later converted into a formal commitment and therefore be disabling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    ... I am not in favor of states issuing permits/license to non-residents for use in any other state. In simple terms, I feel a FL license issued to a non-resident should only be good in FL. Again, your personal issue is between you and the issuing authorities.
    Any reason for this?

    What about people who live in states w/o CC permits or only may-issue permits that are only given to those with political connections? They can still use non-res permits while traveling. What about people caught up in interstate reciprocity foolishness? What about states that insist on tying permits to DL's? There's no rationale for this as permit holders are, as a group, more law abiding than average and every LEO should be wary while conducting any and all vehicle stops - permit holder or not.

  8. #22
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    1st, FL does not have "non-resident permits," only CWFLs, regardless of address.

    Should FL issue DLs to anyone from any state? You can't be a NY resident with a CT derivers licesne driving in FL. What makes a carry permit any different? I see--for many--that getting a FL CWFL is a of getting around not being to get a permit on one's own state, or that state "A" does not honor state "B's" permit for whatever reason but will accept FL's, so resident of state "B" gets a FL CWFL to skate around it, even though that person has no intention of ever going to FL.

    It's a serious loophole that will sooner or later cause problems for legitimate holders of FL CWFLs. FL will not honor another state's permit unless that person is a resident of that state.
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    But we're talking about a right, not a privilege and DL's are also commonly used as proof of residency including for state sponsored programs. There is specific legislation in every state about getting a DL when you move to a new state, not so with a CC permit. Still don't see what the problem is? - since over half of the states recognize non-resident permits, neither does most of the US. What are people "getting away with" besides exercising a right enumerated in the BoR that is otherwise being denied to them?

  10. #24
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    Right, privilege, whatever; that argument can go on forever. State says you have to have a permit, you have to have one. State says you have to be a resident of the permit you hold, then you have to be a resident of that state.
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    Question Persons who already have a CWL

    What if you are already issued a concealed license and wish to voluntarily admit yourself? How does that work? Are your doctors required to notify the state or anything?

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