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Mental Illness & FL Conceal Carry License

8K views 24 replies 14 participants last post by  MemereLisa 
#1 ·
Does anyone know if Florida withholds conceal and carry permits from an individual who has been a voluntary patient in an inpatient mental hospital?

Under CC laws on this website it says this:
Follows federal law regarding gun sales.
Florida will not issue a license to carry a concealed weapon if the applicant:

Has been committed to a mental institution under Chapter 394, or similar laws of any other state, unless the applicant produces a certificate from a licensed psychiatrist stating that he or she has not suffered from disability for at least five years prior to the date of submission of the application.


I am an out of state resident and I voluntarily admitted myself to an inpatient mental hospital. It wasn't for suicide, homicide, or paranoid delusions, I have severe OCD and my own psychiatrist has said he doesn't have any reservations about me being a safety risk with firearms. Which is absurd that I even have to ask, because I have absolutely no history of suicide or homicide nor have I ever been convicted of a felony, but I fear with events in Newtown, CT there may be some broad sweeping sentiment soon to just bar everyone whose ever been in a mental hospital. May sound good to people, but not every person whos ever been a patient there is a harm to themselves or other people or sees/hears voices.

Also the reason I want an FL license is I am a resident of Illinois. Illinois will have a conceal and carry law soon, hopefully because FL is more strict in licensing, the goons who run Illinois will allow reciprocation. I'd rather not apply for anything firearm related in Illinois because they keep a database of all mental illness admits, voluntary or involuntary (heck they could revoke your FOID card if you see a counselor here). I was supposed to have my card revoked according to the law because the law here says that it doesn't matter what you were in the hospital for or if you are dangerous or ever have been, you automatically lose your rights.
 
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#2 ·
#3 ·
Well you don't know what Il will do or not. Maybe you can just get the IL permit. when available. In some states you must have the permit from the state you reside in. So living in IL with a FL permit won't work. But if you go to another state if would work. I don't think it would be a bad thing for you to start the process of another out of state permit.
 
#4 ·
Whether you can get a FL CWFL is between you and the Dept. of Agr & Cust Services.

Your past history aside, I am not in favor of states issuing permits/license to non-residents for use in any other state. In simple terms, I feel a FL license issued to a non-resident should only be good in FL. Again, your personal issue is between you and the issuing authorities.

In general, FL will accept reciprocy with states that will do likewise. FL does not honor third party permits, such as a NY resident with a VA license. It's either a FL license or one from the state in which one resides.

Good luck in your endeavour with FL and IL.
 
#17 ·
In Ohio you have to live here to get a CCl. Our state is a residence only state. I have never understood living in one state but getting your ccl from another state. This would make sense only if you were going to be in a state that doesn't accept your states ccl so you would need to have one for that particular state. If I want to carry in Texas I have to get a ccl from Texas as they do not accept Ohio ccl and it should only be good when I am in Texas. I don't care what the reason if you can't get the ccl from the state you live in you shouldn't be carrying in your state.
 
#5 ·
Not sure about the license part as stated that is between you and the state however if you are truthful when purchasing a firearm from an FFL dealer you may/will be disqualified from the purchase as one of the questions is in regards to mental health facilities and being admitted.
 
#6 ·
My concern is your severe OCD and handling a firearm,which could lead to you chambering and unchambering a round numerous times,or disassembling assembling inserting mag dropping mag etc. which could be an ND just waiting to happen
 
#9 ·
My OCD compulsions have nothing to do with firearms. I've been using them safely on the range for many years since I was 21. So this is not an issue, nor would any of the doctors or psychologists who've known me for years ever have this sort of concern. I would also like to mention that I can get a license to practice medicine - just to further put things in perspective.
 
#7 ·
My understanding is that if you voluntarily admitted yourself, you have never actually been committed to a mental facility...but I'm am neither a lawyer or a mental health professional. As for reciprocity with Illinois if and when they pass their concealed carry law, I wouldn't hold my breath that they will be very friendly to other states permits, resident or non-resident. My advice would be to do as I did and leave Illinois. Sorry.
 
#8 ·
Clearly none of us are lawyers or experts on the subject....so far.

I recall reading the paperwork for purchasing guns/applying for permits (in the past few months) and I think what it says is that if you have been determined by a court to be mentally incompetent - or something along those lines. I have received outpatient treatment for PTSD - this doesn't disqualify me for anything. Friends of mine have received inpatient treatment for PTSD, alcohol abuse, etc.. - none of these is the same is a court saying "you are mentally incapable".

I think you're ok. You'll find out for sure when you mail in your check....

Austin
 
#11 ·
To be honest I seriously doubt if IL will accept an out of state CCW license,and even if they did I would bet money that to be a resident you would have to have an Illinois License since it would not only be about control but money.
There is also that pesky Illinois Firearms Owner ID card you would need to get to buy a handgun,if Illinois runs checks like you say then your not gonna get one
 
#12 ·
I don't think I'm in their system. I still have my FOID and they havent asked for it since I was admitted. It's been well over a year too, so maybe the hospital didn't even report me because they knew I wasn't a danger. Even though they're technically supposed to, there's widespread problems with that system here.
 
#13 ·
The federal firearms purchase paperwork only asks for involuntary, i.e. a judge placed you in the hospital. This was not the case with me.
Ok good. Haven't seen or filled one out in awhile could not remember exactly what it said.
 
#14 ·
Not an expert on FL law, and IANAL. Many states, do not hold voluntary commitment against a person when applying for a permit. As retsupt99 suggested, call the FL licensing authority for a direct answer to your question.

As for a IL Permit, when and if they ever become available, I'm sure jaywalking will be a disqualifying offense.
 
#15 ·
heres the criterial for involuntary placement in an institution from Florida state stautes:
394.467 Involuntary inpatient placement.—(1) CRITERIA.—A person may be placed in involuntary inpatient placement for treatment upon a finding of the court by clear and convincing evidence that:
(a) He or she is mentally ill and because of his or her mental illness:
1.a. He or she has refused voluntary placement for treatment after sufficient and conscientious explanation and disclosure of the purpose of placement for treatment; or
b. He or she is unable to determine for himself or herself whether placement is necessary; and
2.a. He or she is manifestly incapable of surviving alone or with the help of willing and responsible family or friends, including available alternative services, and, without treatment, is likely to suffer from neglect or refuse to care for himself or herself, and such neglect or refusal poses a real and present threat of substantial harm to his or her well-being; or
b. There is substantial likelihood that in the near future he or she will inflict serious bodily harm on himself or herself or another person, as evidenced by recent behavior causing, attempting, or threatening such harm; and
(b) All available less restrictive treatment alternatives which would offer an opportunity for improvement of his or her condition have been judged to be inappropriate.
Google: "florida state statutes: chapter 394" for the whole speil
My daughter volintraily commited herself for a week for simular circumstances. She did the research afterward and it (she said) does not disqualify her from having a CWP. However, it does disqualify ger from adopting a child..... Go figure.....
Now all that said, you may want to enquire about the legality of having a Fl permit and using recipricy in a state where you can't qualify for that states permit. ...Just saying....
 
#19 ·
"(b) Have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

Because this doesn't differenciate between voluntarily or non-voluntarily or "committed" versus "admitted" this may be a sticking point.
 
#20 ·
Thank you for your service OldVet :smile:

BATF definition of committed: BATFE Letter Re: Mental Disqualification - Gun Owners of America

This term means a formal commitment of a person to a mental institution by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The term includes a commitment to a mental institution involuntarily. The term also includes a commitment for mental defectiveness or mental illness, and commitments for other reasons such as for drug use. The term does not include a person in a mental institution for observation or any voluntary admission to a mental institution.

ATF has historically interpreted these provisions as constituting two distinct prohibitions. Each prohibition represents a separate disqualification. For example, a “commitment” means a formal commitment, not a voluntary stay. Excluded are stays for observation only. Nor does the term include a stay in a mental institution that never involved any form of adjudication by a lawful authority. However, a stay that began as a voluntary stay may be subsequently transformed into a disqualifying stay if a court, board, or other lawful authority makes a determination that the person is a danger to self or others. Moreover, a voluntary stay that is by itself not disabling could be later converted into a formal commitment and therefore be disabling.
 
#22 ·
1st, FL does not have "non-resident permits," only CWFLs, regardless of address.

Should FL issue DLs to anyone from any state? You can't be a NY resident with a CT derivers licesne driving in FL. What makes a carry permit any different? I see--for many--that getting a FL CWFL is a of getting around not being to get a permit on one's own state, or that state "A" does not honor state "B's" permit for whatever reason but will accept FL's, so resident of state "B" gets a FL CWFL to skate around it, even though that person has no intention of ever going to FL.

It's a serious loophole that will sooner or later cause problems for legitimate holders of FL CWFLs. FL will not honor another state's permit unless that person is a resident of that state.
 
#23 ·
But we're talking about a right, not a privilege and DL's are also commonly used as proof of residency including for state sponsored programs. There is specific legislation in every state about getting a DL when you move to a new state, not so with a CC permit. Still don't see what the problem is? - since over half of the states recognize non-resident permits, neither does most of the US. What are people "getting away with" besides exercising a right enumerated in the BoR that is otherwise being denied to them?
 
#24 ·
Right, privilege, whatever; that argument can go on forever. State says you have to have a permit, you have to have one. State says you have to be a resident of the permit you hold, then you have to be a resident of that state.
 
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