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Cc'ing in the Mall of America

9K views 48 replies 26 participants last post by  Mn0341 
#1 · (Edited)
I have read many other forum topics on this but would like to know what all of you thought. I am going to the Mall of America over this wkend (12/23/12) an maybe on the the return trip the wkend after. My question is should I carry in the mall? I know the rules say that the owners of rental property ( landlords) cannot keep their tennents or their guests from CC'ing or open carrying; subdivision 17 article E. but I have read on here mall security, if spotted, will kick out anyone that is carrying, even if you disregard them the police will come an escort you out. I do not, with the recent events, go into a place like that w/ out my glock. They are not in compliance with state law. Even in the Paul Bunyan Mall here in Bemidji has signs but they have no teeth to prosecute. What should I do? An what are your thoughts??
 
#2 ·
Carry. I do. MOA, not to mention it's parking lots are prime areas to be on high alert.


Post Edited: I go back and forth between Texas and Minnesota.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I always carried at the MOA (concealed only!!). I used to go to the MOA at least once per month during the three years that I lived in MN.
 
#7 ·
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Yes, if you have your carry permit, CARRY AT THE MOA! You can (and likely will) be trespassed and asked to leave if they see it, but if you have a decent IWB rig or proper cover, you'll have no worries. You'd be fully legal. As you mentioned, Minnesota statute 624.714, subdivision 17, states that If you are asked to leave and you refuse, you can be ticketed by law enforcement for a petty misdemeanor trespassing violation - fine for first offense not to exceed $25.

The MOA is probably the most 'urban' mall in the state, making it imperative that you bring your carry IMO. I always carry at the MOA or anywhere else I can do so legally in the state.


By the way, welcome to the forum!
 
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#9 · (Edited)
Arkhasylum, but you cannot be trespassed there as a mall rents out its property, the only people who can legally kick me out or have me trespassed are the individual stores within the mall. And this is the reason I am asking I can only be trespassed by the individual store an be escorted back out of the store but I can still be legally in the mall. Mind you I do not want to be a test case and that's the reason I'm am asking all your thoughts. What do you say now, I am real curious now.
 
#10 ·
I don't know about MOA or even the state laws, but generally a property owner retains some rights even when they rent space out, plus the mall itself is their property, so I don't see why they couldn't ask you to leave it.

Once again, I don't know their laws specifically and I've never even been there, so my thoughts may be totally off base.
 
#11 ·
Dear Law Abiding Gun Owner,

If you have a license to carry than carry. As long as you are obeying law you should carry and don't be paranoid about it.

If anyone were to get caught because someone noticed their weapon on them than you did not properly prepare their clothing to conceal.
 
#12 ·
I always enter through Sears because there were not signs up at those doors. I am not sure if that is still the case because I have not been in there for probably about a year. That was before I was looking at the statutes for other information and found out that in Minnesota, landlords cannot restrict carry. At the MOA, their signs are rarely in a conspicuous location anyways. IANAL, but you shouldn't have any problems with CONCEALED carry. Open carry could ruffle a few feathers, and I don't think you want to talk to the Mall Police. They are not just some security dudes, they are actual Bloomington police officers.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Tx expat in MN under our laws and I quote ""Private establishment" means a building, structure, or portion thereof that is owned, leased, controlled, or operated by a nongovernmental entity for a nongovernmental purpose." And with this "A landlord may not restrict the lawful carry or possession of firearms by tenants or their guests." Meaning that, only the individual stores who have leased from the MOA company could ask us to leave. Now my concern again is if my shirt happens to get caught on the grip or some freak thing happens (Murphy's law) I just want to know that if I am in the right, which I am and I get kicked out I have the law, #1, on my side. Btw this is all in Mn state statute 624.714 if any one is interested in it.
 
#14 ·
I understand that but the mall itself is a building located on private property, isn't it? If so, they may lease out the shop areas but they still own the "public" areas, like all the corridors that connect the shops. So I get that they cannot restrict, by law, an individual who is carrying inside of a shop but that same person is going to have to travel on their property to go from the shop entrance to the building exit or to another shop.

I understand what you are asking and I'm sorry I can't be of any more help, but I do think they are going to have the right right to ask you to leave because even if the shops are "leased" property, that leased property is still housed within their property and you can't go from store to store without being on mall property, which is how they can ask you to leave or have you escorted out by the police.
 
#15 ·
OK - guys, gals, help me out here. The OP in this thread is asking about concealed carry.

If you are carrying concealed, then nobody knows that you are carrying, yes?

Let's be more specific: Your gun isn't showing.

So how is this a problem?
 
#16 ·
Because he is specifically asking about the legalities involved if he happens to get "caught" due to some sort of unintentional display; like his example of his shirt accidentally riding up and sticking behind the grip.
 
#17 ·
I know it's not what you're asking, but get in the habit of giving your concealing garment, whether it's a t shirt, hoodie, sportcoat or jacket, a tug periodically and any time you bend or reach. Unless you carry a massive hog's leg super magnum and dress ultra sexy, you really shouldn't have to worry. No one will be scrutinizing you that closely.
 
#25 ·
... Unless you carry a massive hog's leg super magnum and dress ultra sexy, you really shouldn't have to worry. ....
Heck, at 57 and 400 lbs, if I dressed ultra sexy it would make folks look the other way and they would completely miss my hogleg. Problem solved!

And the bad guys wouldn't come anywhere near me. Nobody else would, of course, but that just means I have better access to the sale tables.

Hm. Maybe I've figured out why folks dress as they do at Wal Mart...
 
#18 ·
Always carry & if its concealed properly no one will even know. Better to have it with you than wish you did, and the MOA parking ramp is a prime spot for getting mugged.
 
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#22 ·
I appreciate that the OP is questioning the legalities of his decisions. By intentionally disobeying established laws as a CC permit holder, in the long run, could do more harm than good. How can we tout that we are law abiding citizens exercising a right, when some of us obviously do not? That kind of attitude can eventually hurt us all. It's already been well established that they lump us all into one big group, good and bad.

I cannot stand that I would be associated with individuals that plan to circumvent the law because 'concealed is concealed'. If you don't like it, shop somewhere else.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2
 
#24 ·
I cannot stand that I would be associated with individuals that plan to circumvent the law because 'concealed is concealed'. If you don't like it, shop somewhere else.

Perhaps you can enlighten me; What law(s) do i plan to circumvent?
 
#26 ·
I'm not talking about you directly. I don't know the laws in your area and have no idea where you are from. I apologize for not being more clear.

All I can speak for are the restrictions in my area. Posted facilities carry the weight of law. Some, unfortunately, have that attitude - that it does not matter. I am of the opinion that it does. It's potentially criminal and makes us all look bad. Just because they aren't caught, does not mean it isn't wrong. The depth of a man's character is best judged by his actions when he thinks no one is looking.

Again, I did not mean anything personal by you. But, what you said did remind me of how much that irritates me.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2
 
#28 ·
As far as the laws are concerned, he would be legal to carry. Minnesota is a permit to carry state, so he can choose concealed or open. If they ask him to leave and he complies, no foul. If he does not comply, then it's a misdemeanor trespass. I would carry concealed to avoid any chance of being asked to leave.
 
#29 ·
I'm guessing you didn't get the memo regarding the shooting at the Clackamas Mall in Portland, Oregon on Dec. 12th this year. (which by the way was stopped by a ccw holder).

This is a very simple thing as far as I'm concerned.

1) I would never go to a mall without carrying my gun. Especially during Christmas time! End of story!

If you need further explanation...

2) If you live in a state where it is a crime (misdemeanor or felony) to violate a posted sign on a business establishment, then do not go. There are a few states which make it a crime to violated posted establishments.

3)
If you live in a state (like Missouri, Florida and many others) where it is not a crime to violate a posted establishment, then point #1 applies.

In those states, nothing happens if they ask you to leave, and you comply with the request. The laws are specifically written that way for a reason. Excercise your right and carry on.

If asked to leave, then obey the request. Don't make a scene, don't create trouble... Just act like the law abiding citizen that you are and abide by their request.

I am continually dumbfounded as to why people continue to grapple with such a simple and straightforward situation.
 
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#31 ·
I guess I look at it this way. The individual stores in a mall ( much like individual apartments in an apartment complex) are the only people ( tenants) who CAN restrict the lawful carry on the premises, landlords can NOT kick you out for carrying in their buildings if you are a guest or an leasee. So it does not matter in my eyes were I carry on the premises of the MOA, I am in compliance of the law. But I do not think I am going to get the real legal advice I need to answer my question. Thanks again, I get my info from MN State 624.714.
 
#32 ·
Not familiar with the law in Minnesota, but, it seems your approach is sound. Following the law is a one of the easiest things we can do to help reduce, both, the attacks we have on our rights and further restriction.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk 2
 
#33 ·
If you follow the laws then you have no problems. If it is a gray area and you have to chose then that is where it comes down to you.

To figure out the real answers you should talk to a layer or the police department. They should know the laws well enough to sort out any confusion.


Si vis pacem, para bellum
 
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