Columbine Dad speaks out - Page 4

Columbine Dad speaks out

This is a discussion on Columbine Dad speaks out within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by d2jlking They outlaw prayers at football games, or during school. If you don't have a problem with kids or faculty praying then.....what's ...

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 69
Like Tree50Likes

Thread: Columbine Dad speaks out

  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,277

    Re: Columbine Dad speaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    They outlaw prayers at football games, or during school. If you don't have a problem with kids or faculty praying then.....what's the problem????
    If you can't see the problem with an authority figure leading (or even inviting a student to lead) a prayer in front of children, can't see that it's an imposition of the beliefs of some upon others sanctioned by the state, there is just nowhere else for this discussion to go.

    IMO the statement of the dad in the OP inasmuch as it touches on God belonging in school, is as un-American as 9/11. It strikes at one of the key freedoms upon which this country was built, one of the first reasons European settlers came to these shores.
    pittypat21 and wdbailey like this.


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,496
    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    So if someone can grow up in a religious home and do evil, religion is not a solution? People die in cars so we shouldn't drive. Guns are used in murder we shouldn't own them. Alcohol can be abused, make it illegal. Basically you are throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Just because religion doesn't make everyone a saint does NOT mean it has no merit, and cannot be part of fixing our societies' woes.
    So then which religion should be put into schools? Christianity? Judaism? Islam? I'm pretty sure with all the different religions floating around a lot of people would be upset because THEIR religion isn't in schools. Not one specific, then? Religion wouldn't actually be taught? Then what's this argument about? Kids should be able to pray? They can! I was always able to pray in school, no problem. Just because prayer isn't led by school officials or isn't "sanctioned" by anybody doesn't mean that people can't practice their religion in the simple ways for those few hours a day that they're at school. Prayer doesn't have to be a teacher with a microphone before a football game, or over a PA at the beginning of the school day. If a student wants to pray, they can still do so.

    And in that case, "putting religion back in schools" will have little effect, because children are still being raised religiously at home, and simply allowed to pray at school. So how is that a solution?
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

  3. #48
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    448
    Quote Originally Posted by brocktice View Post
    If you can't see the problem with an authority figure leading (or even inviting a a student to lead) a prayer in front of children, can't see that it's an imposition of the beliefs of some upon others sanctioned by the state, there is just nowhere else for this discussion to go.

    IMO the statement of the dad in the OP inasmuch as it touches on God belonging in school, is as un-American as 9/11. It strikes at one of the key freedoms upon which this country was built, one of the first reasons European settlers came to these shores.
    Great. So I disagree with you, that means we can't discuss it? How reasonable. Don't you see what is being said here. God in schools can't help. People can be religious and still do evil. You can't force someone to accept religion. Then......you say "it's an imposition of the beliefs of some upon others sanctioned by the state" How is that possible? It can't be both ways. To me, your view of God in school being un-American is not correct. Forced religion taught in schools to the unwilling....THAT would be unAmerican. But the right to practice freely the religion of your choice without hindrance is the REAL reason European settlers came to these shores. Not because they didn't want to worship God, only because they wanted the freedom to worship in the manner of their choosing.
    Last edited by d2jlking; December 27th, 2012 at 10:42 AM. Reason: spelling
    Jetfuelrm likes this.

  4. #49
    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,277

    Re: Columbine Dad speaks out

    I'm really confused now, I'll have to go back and read again.

    If we cannot agree on that particular issue, I'm saying, we're just not going to make progress anywhere else, because it's fundamental to the discussion.

  5. #50
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    448
    Quote Originally Posted by pittypat21 View Post
    So then which religion should be put into schools? Christianity? Judaism? Islam? I'm pretty sure with all the different religions floating around a lot of people would be upset because THEIR religion isn't in schools. Not one specific, then? Religion wouldn't actually be taught? Then what's this argument about? Kids should be able to pray? They can! I was always able to pray in school, no problem. Just because prayer isn't led by school officials or isn't "sanctioned" by anybody doesn't mean that people can't practice their religion in the simple ways for those few hours a day that they're at school. Prayer doesn't have to be a teacher with a microphone before a football game, or over a PA at the beginning of the school day. If a student wants to pray, they can still do so.
    And in that case, "putting religion back in schools" will have little effect, because children are still being raised religiously at home, and simply allowed to pray at school. So how is that a solution?
    Now, I agree with most of what you said here. I never advocated, nor would I, the forced institution of a specific religion in a public school. I just don't believe that a teacher or coach or student leading a group of people in prayer is an imposition on anyone who doesn't believe. If you don't believe in that particular religion, or any for that matter, than how is someone else praying an imposition on your rights?

  6. #51
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    448
    Boy Suspended for Bringing Bible To School Files Suit | Video | TheBlaze.com

    This link shows what I have a problem with. I am NOT for forcing religion down peoples' throats, especially in schools. But I believe in individual rights and liberties.

  7. #52
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    448
    Quote Originally Posted by brocktice View Post
    I'm really confused now, I'll have to go back and read again.

    If we cannot agree on that particular issue, I'm saying, we're just not going to make progress anywhere else, because it's fundamental to the discussion.
    LOL. it's getting a bit convoluted. WE AGREE. I'm done sir. Nice discussing this with all of you. Sincerely.

  8. #53
    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,277

    Re: Columbine Dad speaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    Boy Suspended for Bringing Bible To School Files Suit | Video | TheBlaze.com

    This link shows what I have a problem with. I am NOT for forcing religion down peoples' throats, especially in schools. But I believe in individual rights and liberties.
    Ah well, that does seem out of line.

  9. #54
    VIP Member
    Array TX expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    3,980
    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    Now, I agree with most of what you said here. I never advocated, nor would I, the forced institution of a specific religion in a public school. I just don't believe that a teacher or coach or student leading a group of people in prayer is an imposition on anyone who doesn't believe. If you don't believe in that particular religion, or any for that matter, than how is someone else praying an imposition on your rights?
    And would you feel the same way if "coach" was muslim and asked everyone who was interested to take a few moments to give praise to the one true God, Allah? Everyone else can just sit there and be respectfully silent if Allah isn't their thing. Please don't try and tell me that you'd be fine with it. If that ever happened people would be up in arms and beside themselves about how the school was trying to create a bunch of muslims.

    The problem with religion in schools is everyone is fine with it until it isn't their religion; then it gets offensive or unreasonable. Give the Christian group 5 minutes at the beginning of the school day to pray and you've got to extend the same to every other religion represented over the whole student body. It's unmanageable and there are other places for it; home, church and other private settings. As stated by someone else, if it's that important to you to have your children surrounded by their religion during school hours, then put them in a private school. That's the whole point of having private schools.
    Last edited by TX expat; December 27th, 2012 at 05:37 PM.
    NRA Life Member

    "I don't believe gun owners have rights." - Sarah Brady

  10. #55
    Distinguished Member Array brocktice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    New Mexico, USA
    Posts
    1,277

    Re: Columbine Dad speaks out

    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    LOL. it's getting a bit convoluted. WE AGREE. I'm done sir. Nice discussing this with all of you. Sincerely.
    Yeah sorry about the confusion. That link helped clarify what you were talking about.

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    7,561
    Four pages of responses to an article that, while plagiarized most recently on December 19, 2012 (in the link), was actually penned after the events at Columbine ... in a "not so special hearing" in the House judiciary subcommittee on crime which occurred on May 27, 1999.

    Darrel Scott's statements were as well received as those of Holder, Lott, LaPierre, and others.

    If we are going to present facts... please let them be facts... not discredited internet urban legends.

    Darrel Scott did make the statement. But the rest of the article is bogus... and his statement was not made in December of 2012.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  12. #57
    Senior Member Array wdbailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    607
    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    Boy Suspended for Bringing Bible To School Files Suit | Video | TheBlaze.com

    This link shows what I have a problem with. I am NOT for forcing religion down peoples' throats, especially in schools. But I believe in individual rights and liberties.
    When dealing with The Blaze it's always good to try and find a more reliable source Student booted in Bible flap suing school district Page 1 of 2 | UTSanDiego.com

    A more likely scenario is that the little darling was trying to ram his own religious beliefs down his fellow students throats and disrupted class while doing it

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,496
    If practicing your religion disrupts normal school/classroom activities, then it is a problem. Students are at school to learn, not practice religion. It WOULD be too much of an imposition for school leaders/coaches/teachers/etc. to say a prayer at any point the school day. Others WILL get offended, and that is a problem. If you want to pray on your own during school, that's fine. If you want to bring your bible to school and read at a point in the day that does not disrupt normal school activities (during lunch, for example), then that's fine. But as soon as any of those things begin to cause problems with the teaching/learning that is going on at school, it needs to be removed.

    School is for learning, the rest can be done on the students' own time. If you want to pray before you eat your lunch, or before you start your school day, or before a football game, then have at it. Why does it need to be performed by anybody other than yourself?

    Not to begin arguing over scripture or anything, but since generally this argument of God in schools is made by christians, I'll remind everyone of what Jesus said concerning prayer:

    “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you."

    The point I'm trying to make is not that having a teacher pray before a football game makes them a hypocrite, but rather that he stressed praying in private, to one's self. So let the students pray to their God, but do not let it disrupt normal school activities.
    Toorop likes this.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

  14. #59
    Ex Member Array Toorop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Somewhere out there.
    Posts
    1,312
    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    This is such a common and wrong-headed argument. Nobody is asking you to pay teachers to pray. The government should not put in laws to stop people from exercising their religion. That's what happens. They outlaw prayers at football games, or during school. If you don't have a problem with kids or faculty praying then.....what's the problem???? Nobody should be forced to pray, and nobody should be forced not to. As for your Christmas rant.....This country is steeped in Christianity. So our traditions reflect that. Nobody forces companies to close or pay overtime. Those are company practices either negotiated or not. Relax.
    Please post the links to where they are stopping people from exervising their religion. Which law outlaws prayers at games or during school? Please cite it and post a link. You can do that, just not have it be official. This country is steeped in Christianity? Really where do you get that from? Why do people work on Sunday? Why is pork legal? Why do we not follow Biblical law? Sorry but we aren't a Christian nation, we are a nation with Christians living in it.

    And if a company has its hourly employees work on Christmas, they have to pay overtime. It is a Federal law. It is very offensive to those of us who are not Christians and want to run our businesses without having to pay overtime to our employees who work on Christmas. It is Socialism.

    Federal holidays in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Why do government workers have to be paid Holiday pay on them? Why on Christmas?

  15. #60
    Ex Member Array Toorop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Somewhere out there.
    Posts
    1,312
    Quote Originally Posted by d2jlking View Post
    Now, I agree with most of what you said here. I never advocated, nor would I, the forced institution of a specific religion in a public school. I just don't believe that a teacher or coach or student leading a group of people in prayer is an imposition on anyone who doesn't believe. If you don't believe in that particular religion, or any for that matter, than how is someone else praying an imposition on your rights?
    When they are taking time out to lead a prayer rather than teaching. If you want to have some figurehead leading the prayer, go to church/mosque/synagogue or wherever rather than having my tax dollars fund this. Nobody is stopping kids from praying in schools, we just don't want the school sanctioning it and leading it. I find it offensive and silly to force prayer upon me as I don't pray and don't feel I should have to sit through it because the school sanctions it. If someone wants to bow their head and pray before they eat, but if I am expected to as the principal does, there is an inconvenience.
    pittypat21 likes this.

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

colombine student's father speaks to congress
,

columbine dad

,
columbine dad speaks
,
columbine dad speaks out
,
columbine dad speaks to congress
,
columbine dads letter
,

columbine father

,
columbine father letter about nra
,

columbine father speaks

,

columbine father speaks out

,
columbine father speaks to congress
,

columbine father speaks to congress 2012

,
letter from columbine father
,
men and women are three-part beings. we all consist of body, mind, and spirit. when we refuse to acknowledge a third par
,
when did the columbine father meet with the government
Click on a term to search for related topics.