October 14th, 2006 07:13 PM
Face to Face Sales - Could they be Your Worst Nightmare?
I will preface this post with 3 Links.
Please bookmark them ,and use them.
They will give you access to more Gun Law Info than you will find
in a Thousand posts from any Gun Forum.
(All State Gun Laws)
http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/ (NRA Law Compendium )
http://www.handgunlaw.us/ (Invaluable CCW site )
We've all seen the posts asking questions , and the for sale ads ,
and many of us have been participants in sales of firearms between
Unfortunately , few of us are Legal Experts - or even well versed in the multitude of Federal -State-and local Laws which govern the
sale and possession of firearms.
Therefore we must always err on the side of CAUTION
Most of us know the wisdom of requiring ID from a buyer or seller,
and using receipts or bills of sale, But this alone may NOT keep
you from losing your license/permit - going to prison- or worse,
being involved in a Trajedy.
As a resident of PA and holding a CCL from same , I will only
directly address the issue from that perspective, but will add some links afterward to help inform those from other states.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaw...tion/penna.pdf (PA. Gun Laws )
( PA Letter )
In Pennsylvania , all sales of Handguns between unrelated Individuals
and even some related persons MUST include a NICS/PICS check.
These checks are conducted by the State Police (PICS ).
Furthermore - the Federal Govt currently holds that an FFL may
NOT conduct a NICS unless that FFL takes the firearm into Inventory.
In lieu of an FFl however - a Sherrifs office may conduct the check.
Many states have similar requirements.
Please remember - YOU are responsible for any criminal tragedy
which happens because you sold a gun without obeying the Laws.
The Following links provide info on the Brady Law and NICS.
(Brady Law /NICS )
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/bradylaw/permit_chart.htm (States with Brady Alternative)
Last edited by AKsrule; October 14th, 2006 at 07:19 PM.
-SIG , it's What's for Dinner-
know your rights!
"If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
October 14th, 2006 07:21 PM
Yep, I completely agree and is what I was saying in the post about selling a handgun FTF. Go above and beyond folks, it is in your best interest. If you don't you are just plan lazy or you don't care. If you think that selling a firearm FTF, getting the money and walking away is Ok to do and you think that is what your state law's say and all you have to do is say you sold it and you think because you live in Texas it's cool or some such place that you think you are immune from the ATF or FBI then it is only a matter of time until something goes wrong and you are aressted and all you can say is "I sold it".
Train and train hard, you might not get a second chance to make a first impression!
I vote for Monica Lewinsky's Ex-Boyfriend's Wife for President.....Not!
October 14th, 2006 07:33 PM
One of the only FTF handgun deals I have done, involved meeting a guy on a filthy wet day after quite a drive - all trying to then locate the FFL we wanted to use and finally - doing the deal. Total PITA.
I resent the loss of privacy aspect but sure do choose to be on the right side of whatever darned law or laws are there - rather than trying to sail too close to the wind and getting bitten in the butt later.
Guess it's a case of sleeping easier outweighs risking unwanted hassles later.
Thx for all the info.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
October 14th, 2006 07:58 PM
Won't do them, myself. It's going to happen at arm's length: either via the mail, sight-unseen, or at a gun shop and I'll spot them ~10% consignment fee for handling the thing in the shop. No way will I engage someone where firearms are involved when I don't know him/her. That could easily turn into a bad dream, if the person goes sideways. No way to know, in advance.
Face to Face Sales - Could they be Your Worst Nightmare?
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
October 14th, 2006 08:14 PM
Don't sell guns. You will only regret it later. But, If you must, be careful and follow all the laws.
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
October 14th, 2006 08:42 PM
The only FTF sales I have done were to people I know. I don't sell to strangers. Washington doesn't require any forms or nics check to be made. The state does provide a form on their web sight that private parties can request and fill out during the sale and then a cop0y is sent to the state police. This then covers the seller should any thing go wrong. It is not required but provided of the seller wants to do it.
October 14th, 2006 08:56 PM
I agree with rocky, that is why I don't sell guns, I always regret it. But when I do, and I've sold several, it has always -without an exception- been to family or a friend. However, in Ky people trade/sell/buy guns from each other regularly with no paper work what so ever. I'm sure there are some who do it "properly" I just do not know of any.
Not sure what "properly" is as I am not familar with the state law on this, I'd say good ole' common sense will get you bye.
October 14th, 2006 09:20 PM
+1 for rocky!!!!
"Dont be afraid to go after what you want to do, and what you want to be. But don't be afraid to be willing to pay the price." - Lane Frost
October 15th, 2006 09:09 AM
A dichotomy exists in me in that I do NOT want any new gun laws that would require that FTF sales be run through an FFL for a NICS check. I have sold (and bought) a couple of pistols myself FTF, but in each of the sales, I was doing it with friends or people whom I had known for quite a while and thus was comfortable with their intentions and character.
HOWEVER, if I ever decide to put any guns up for sale into the "marketplace", I will absolutely REQUIRE (me require, not the government) that the sale go through an FFL and therefore require that the buyer go through the NICS check process.
No, that won't stop a strawman purchase, but at least it adds just one layer of security against my being involved in selling a gun that's later used in a crime.
Additionally, I would have no problem if a stranger that I wanted to buy a gun from also wanted to go through an FFL.
While the Brady people (and all the rest) want to keep guns out of the hands of ALL people, I really do want to keep guns out of the hands of criminally minded people, and going through an FFL when dealing with strangers is one way to add that extra layer of (good and proper) gun "control".
That's just me.
October 15th, 2006 10:42 AM
Thank you for the links! Great information.
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.
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