What am I missing here?

What am I missing here?

This is a discussion on What am I missing here? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Was surfing the web last night reading reviews of my newest acquisition, the Walther PPS in 9mm, and came across something on one of them ...

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Thread: What am I missing here?

  1. #1
    Member Array ChrisMia's Avatar
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    What am I missing here?

    Was surfing the web last night reading reviews of my newest acquisition, the Walther PPS in 9mm, and came across something on one of them that struck me as odd - and dangerous. In explaining his dislike for the Walther's ambi mag release, the reviewer explained:

    "It is impossible to replace or load a magazine with the gun in a holster. It is not a requirement for self-defense, but definitely comes handy when you want to get the gun fully loaded with a round in the chamber. It is safer to insert the magazine, rack the slide, holster, then remove the magazine, top it off and reinsert while it is holstered. You do not need to mingle the loaded gun in your hands or holster is multiple times while topping off the magazine."

    Am I missing something here, or is it really safer to top off as he suggests? As I think about it, it makes no sense to me. With a round in the pipe already, doesn't seem to make a snail's trail of difference whether you top of and reinsert the mag before bolstering. In fact, imagining it myself, it would seem to be awfully cumbersome to press the mag back in hard enough to ensure it's properly seated once the pistol is already holstered - maybe even more dangerous?

    Here's the full review too for anyone interested: SimplyAboutGuns.com | Walther PPS Review


  2. #2
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    I don't see where your missing anything. The practice he's talking about makes no practical sense to me. I rack one into the chamber, drop the magazine and replace the round, replace the mag. then holster the gun.
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  3. #3
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    You're not missing a thing.

    Yes, there are or will be times when you will need to insert a magazine into a holstered gun. However, I don't see this writer's point unless he only carries loose rounds in his pocket and not a spare magazine or two. I take issue with his definition of "safer." I wish I had a buck for every time a mag was re-inserted into a holstered weapon without being fully seated. The gun is drawn, one shot is fired, then... crickets... then a loud epithet from the shooter who now goes through a tap-rack-bang exercise while the clock is running or the bad guys are shooting at him.

    Watch any experienced shooters load up. Insert mag, rack the slide, drop the mag. Insert fully-charged mag, holster the gun. Top off mag. I don't see "mingling" the loaded gun or "holster[ing] it multiple times" anywhere in that, do you? And if you want to do it smoothly, look up "tactical reload with retention."

    I have no idea who the writer is and what his shooting experience is. If he's uncomfortable (= feels unsafe) with 'administrative handling' of a self-loading pistol, then perhaps he should consider revolvers. Meanwhile, enjoy your new blaster!
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    Member Array TVille's Avatar
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    I suspect he is saying do it this way because the less you handle a gun, the safer it is. So, while holstered, the trigger is covered, and you are less likely to "accidentally" pull the trigger. I'm not agreeing with his approach....

  5. #5
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    I think it makes some kind of convoluted sense. If he means you should holster the gun while topping off the mag, that is. I really can't see removing the mag prior to a top-off while the gun is holstered.
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    Senior Member Array Gaius's Avatar
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    You are not missing anything.
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    I always top off the magazine with the gun out of the holster. I just keep my finger off the trigger and point the gun in a safe direction while doing it. Most of my guns have a mag release button on the left side of the gun, where it is usually covered by the holster (I am right handed). I don't think it is easy to get my thumb between gun and holster to release the magazine while the gun is holstered.
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    Member Array MamaMaria's Avatar
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    I agree with gasmitty that the author of that article is making a mountain out of a mole hill. His "solution" of inserting a mag into a holstered pistol is begging for an unseated mag malfunction. Geez, nothing wrong with inserting a magazine the way it is intended, while safely holding the pistol in a safe direction. I discovered the efficient loading procedure gasmitty outlines, even without consulting "professional shooters." It just makes way more sense to prepare two mags first, then worry about topping off the spare mag, rather than topping off the primary mag.
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  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array lchamp's Avatar
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    I like to watch my hands and the gun while I'm topping off my mag. It's not something I do several times a day or under stress.

  10. #10
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    Whoever wrote that doesn't know how to hold/set down/pick up a loaded gun. I can see it taking two hands to top a magazine off. But I can also see it taking one hand to swap out a -1 magazine for a full one - then holster, and top off the -1 magazine....

    I guess if you only have 1 magazine, and you don't have any experience being safe with firearms - he's absolutely right.

    Austin

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisMia View Post
    Was surfing the web last night reading reviews of my newest acquisition, the Walther PPS in 9mm, and came across something on one of them that struck me as odd - and dangerous. In explaining his dislike for the Walther's ambi mag release, the reviewer explained:

    "It is impossible to replace or load a magazine with the gun in a holster. It is not a requirement for self-defense, but definitely comes handy when you want to get the gun fully loaded with a round in the chamber. It is safer to insert the magazine, rack the slide, holster, then remove the magazine, top it off and reinsert while it is holstered. You do not need to mingle the loaded gun in your hands or holster is multiple times while topping off the magazine."

    Am I missing something here, or is it really safer to top off as he suggests? As I think about it, it makes no sense to me. With a round in the pipe already, doesn't seem to make a snail's trail of difference whether you top of and reinsert the mag before bolstering. In fact, imagining it myself, it would seem to be awfully cumbersome to press the mag back in hard enough to ensure it's properly seated once the pistol is already holstered - maybe even more dangerous?

    Here's the full review too for anyone interested: SimplyAboutGuns.com | Walther PPS Review
    The writer's statement is flawed. The writer is assuming that a holstered weapon always has the muzzle pointed in a safe direction...this is not always true. Manipulation of a firearm with the muzzle pointed at something you are not willing to destroy goes against gun safety rules.
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  12. #12
    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    To answer your question directly...

    A sense of humor.

    The author may not be joking, but he is a joke to me!

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    New Member Array davidkiz's Avatar
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    As an author of the article in question let me chime in and explain my point of view.

    As I mentioned topping off a magazine like that is not something you would do on a daily basis. There are few situations though where it comes handy. For me it is usually during training classes or matches, when you are allowed to carry hot, but not allowed to get your gun out until you are on the firing line. This technique allows me to refill the magazine to get ready for the next exercise.

    Quite a rare situation for most people, I agree. I wrote my review not long after attending one of the defensive pistol classes where I shot more than 1500 rounds in two days and the memories of the inconvenience caused by the release were still fresh. Now I would probably not mentioned this.

    I still think the magazine release on Walther PPS is one of the rare flaws of this gun for other reasons I mentioned in the article. I also think the overall the gun is great. I personally carry it daily and do not plan to change it.

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    In many defensive pistol classes when you are not allowed to take your gun out of the holster between exercises and need to "manage ammo" ,it's one way to do it. Also, it's a good idea to know how to change magazines one handed because in a real life situation you might have one wing or the other out of service,but if your still in the fight with only one hand, you gotta use it to do everything. Let's say you are wounded in the left arm and need to change mags. You have to reach around get your mag and put it in the gun while in the holster. You could put the gun between your knees and reload,but it's good to know a few different ways to do it because you never know what won't be working right if you get hit. just sayin, because that's the way I have been trained.
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  15. #15
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    I always top off with a full mag after I re-holster, simply out of habit. I thought everybody did. Why would anyone not do so?
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