Employer policy what would you do - Page 3

Employer policy what would you do

This is a discussion on Employer policy what would you do within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by satori59 Hey! I resemble that remark! I have been in HR for almost 30 years now. I can tell the OP that ...

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  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satori59 View Post
    Hey! I resemble that remark! I have been in HR for almost 30 years now. I can tell the OP that the intent of that policy is to prevent anyone from carrying at work ("except as permitted by law' - means police officers).

    Why do businesses have these rules? One reason is insurance. I know no carrier would give us liability insurance if we allowed even valid permit holders to carry. And since most insurances are bundled, we would be unable to get any property, fire, or possibly workers comp coverage.

    Also, who is going to check every day to see who is carrying? and if they are legally permitted? And just like not all licensed drivers are good drivers, who is to say that every CC'er is a 'good guy"? Or at least not a good guy having a bad day? It's one thing to take personal responsibility for self defense, it's another thing for a company to take legal responsibility for others to do the same. Not much upside, a lot ot potential downside. Good discussion, however...
    Thanks for providing a perspective from the other side, you did an excellent job.

    It sounds like the way for us to make a real difference in fighting the way things are currently carried out, then we need to tackle insurance companies and their policies. In other words, the real key to the issue is to tackle insurance regulation and that would most likely require bringing the long arm of the government in to intervene. I think a lot of us would admit that we think the government has too much reach as it is. Insurance is a private business and I'm not a big fan of government telling businesses how they should run their own affairs.

    The whole thing is a real dilema.


  2. #32
    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I tend to agree. HRs are there to protect the Co.
    Thats a big 10/4

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    ... Speaking with your direct supervisor and perhaps that person's supervisor is probably not a bad idea, depending on your relationship with those people, But DO NOT GO TO HR. They are not your friend. ...
    DITTO!

    In general, the official rules and the actual rules often have only a superficial resemblance. Only you can determine the environment you work in.

    I once naively asked, "Is this legal?" I was transferred 3 days later, but I'm sure that was just a coincidence.

  4. #34
    New Member Array WhitBri's Avatar
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    Employer policy what would you do

    Quote Originally Posted by satori59 View Post
    Hey! I resemble that remark! I have been in HR for almost 30 years now. I can tell the OP that the intent of that policy is to prevent anyone from carrying at work ("except as permitted by law' - means police officers).

    Why do businesses have these rules? One reason is insurance. I know no carrier would give us liability insurance if we allowed even valid permit holders to carry. And since most insurances are bundled, we would be unable to get any property, fire, or possibly workers comp coverage.

    Also, who is going to check every day to see who is carrying? and if they are legally permitted? And just like not all licensed drivers are good drivers, who is to say that every CC'er is a 'good guy"? Or at least not a good guy having a bad day? It's one thing to take personal responsibility for self defense, it's another thing for a company to take legal responsibility for others to do the same. Not much upside, a lot ot potential downside. Good discussion, however...
    Thanks for your input from an HR management perspective. I guess I saw the wording of except as allowed by law and thought that would apply to me. Poor wording at best. Is that well known that means just law enforcement?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhitBri View Post
    Thanks for your input from an HR management perspective. I guess I saw the wording of except as allowed by law and thought that would apply to me. Poor wording at best. Is that well known that means just law enforcement?
    Twenty years ago, most likely when that language was drafted by a bunch of lawyers, it probably would have been clear they were refering to law enforcement. Now that so many states have finally made concealed carry legal, you are right in that folks could interperet a different meaning. But it is not a law, it is a policy. It will be interpreted as your company sees fit.
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  6. #36
    New Member Array WhitBri's Avatar
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    Employer policy what would you do

    Quote Originally Posted by satori59 View Post
    Twenty years ago, most likely when that language was drafted by a bunch of lawyers, it probably would have been clear they were refering to law enforcement. Now that so many states have finally made concealed carry legal, you are right in that folks could interperet a different meaning. But it is not a law, it is a policy. It will be interpreted as your company sees fit.
    That is why I want to be very sure of what their policy is. Iowa is an employment at will state so they can really fire you for about anything. Would hate to lose a good job over something like this

  7. #37
    New Member Array WhitBri's Avatar
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    Employer policy what would you do

    Actually would rather them rewrite the policy if it isn't what they mean and put you have come to work defenseless

  8. #38
    Member Array Topsider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhitBri View Post
    During recent meeting going over entire policy member of managament, my manager's boss said that absolutely no weapons or guns are allowed
    Quote Originally Posted by WhitBri View Post
    I want to be very sure of what their policy is.
    Um...which part of "absolutely no weapons or guns are allowed" didn't you understand...?
    “Those who would give up essential Liberty to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” - Benjamin Franklin

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array Kimberpackn's Avatar
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    Employer policy what would you do

    My employer just recently posted gun free zone signs at work. This includes the parking lot. I may or may not carry mine on a daily basis an keep it in my vehicle.
    We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists. -

    Patrick Henry

  10. #40
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberpackn View Post
    My employer just recently posted gun free zone signs at work. This includes the parking lot. I may or may not carry mine on a daily basis an keep it in my vehicle.
    Great!...Now the freaks of nature know where they can perpetrate their sick deeds with a very limited response if any.

    "Here I am. Defenseless. Shoot me"

    It's going to be a judgement call for each individual.
    Weigh the risk and then do what you must.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

  11. #41
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    Adhere to the policy, you stated you don't want to loose your job.

  12. #42
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhitBri View Post
    Here my issue.
    Wording in company code of conduct, "Except as allowed by law, no employee shall carry a weapon or firearm on company property including company vehicles"
    Example given in actual scenarios on website with code. Employee bring gun in backback into office, another employee sees and reports to management, employee is escorted and terminated.
    During recent meeting going over entire policy member of managament, my manager's boss said that absolutely no weapons or guns are allowed, not shotgun cases in back to go hunting after work hours in company car or personal car used for business purpose. Even like my bow in the back would be considered a weapon and could not be carried in car.
    Now I believe that the managment opinion and the wording of the policy wording don't match.
    What would you do? I have some thoughts on what I will do.
    I just got a carry gun although I have had my permit for a while, want to start carrying all the time and would carry at work. Although my job isn't particularly dangerous I do enter customers homes and sometimes can't offer good news and deals with sometims large amounts of money. Thus emotions sometimes get heated, tempers have flared on me with yelling, etc, no physical violence as yet. Although I wish to carry the income my job supplies and benefits are necessary to survive and don't want to lose my job or good standing with management over an issue like this.
    If you have a permit, and your state allows you to carry in workplace parking lots in the car, or on youor person at work if allowed, it appears to me that your rules, on paper, allow you to carry. If in doubt, write corporate and ask.

    "I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
    -Robert A. Heinlein

  13. #43
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    Employer policy what would you do

    I work for a local gov't operating a water treatment plant. I asked years ago about weapons policy at work since there isn't anything in our personnel manual about it. My town manager said there is nothing in it on purpose because he was very pro gun. Said not to make any official inquiries because if council ever had to address it they would likely ban them. I dropped the matter and currently all but one of my employees carry at work. I obviously carry too and the one guy that doesn't carry is in progress of buying a new revolver and getting his CHL. Any nut/terrorist type that wants to do something to our water supply is in for a surprise.


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  14. #44
    Senior Member Array velo99's Avatar
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    Purwater,
    Good for you & your guys. The recipients of your protection probably would give you a thumbs up.
    We have different gifts,according to the grace given to each of us.

  15. #45
    Member Array Simonsay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Topsider View Post
    Um...which part of "absolutely no weapons or guns are allowed" didn't you understand...?
    It's not consistent with policy. I think that's the question.

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