Defensive Carry banner

Employer policy what would you do

6K views 60 replies 44 participants last post by  Topsider 
#1 ·
Here my issue.
Wording in company code of conduct, "Except as allowed by law, no employee shall carry a weapon or firearm on company property including company vehicles"
Example given in actual scenarios on website with code. Employee bring gun in backback into office, another employee sees and reports to management, employee is escorted and terminated.
During recent meeting going over entire policy member of managament, my manager's boss said that absolutely no weapons or guns are allowed, not shotgun cases in back to go hunting after work hours in company car or personal car used for business purpose. Even like my bow in the back would be considered a weapon and could not be carried in car.
Now I believe that the managment opinion and the wording of the policy wording don't match.
What would you do? I have some thoughts on what I will do.
I just got a carry gun although I have had my permit for a while, want to start carrying all the time and would carry at work. Although my job isn't particularly dangerous I do enter customers homes and sometimes can't offer good news and deals with sometims large amounts of money. Thus emotions sometimes get heated, tempers have flared on me with yelling, etc, no physical violence as yet. Although I wish to carry the income my job supplies and benefits are necessary to survive and don't want to lose my job or good standing with management over an issue like this.
 
See less See more
#42 ·
If you have a permit, and your state allows you to carry in workplace parking lots in the car, or on youor person at work if allowed, it appears to me that your rules, on paper, allow you to carry. If in doubt, write corporate and ask.

"I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
-Robert A. Heinlein
 
#43 ·
I work for a local gov't operating a water treatment plant. I asked years ago about weapons policy at work since there isn't anything in our personnel manual about it. My town manager said there is nothing in it on purpose because he was very pro gun. Said not to make any official inquiries because if council ever had to address it they would likely ban them. I dropped the matter and currently all but one of my employees carry at work. I obviously carry too and the one guy that doesn't carry is in progress of buying a new revolver and getting his CHL. Any nut/terrorist type that wants to do something to our water supply is in for a surprise.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
#46 ·
On your job's property or vehicles, you should comply with the management's policy if you are not willing to lose your job over this issue. When all is said and done, private property owners are allowed in most states to prohibit concealed carry on their premises. Only you can make the call as to which is most important. Perhaps consider seeking a job with a more "gun friendly" employer in the meantime.
 
#48 ·
Another management perspective from one who's involved in creating and administering such policies:

1. The "except as allowed by law" is standard wording for nationwide employers. It's to accommodate the parking lot laws some states have (as mentioned by Old Vet). My state has a law that precludes employers from banning firearms kept in locked employee vehicles parked on a company lot... unless the employer provides a secured parking area. Therefore, employees may carry a firearm while inside their locked vehicle on our premises (parking lot)... but the firearm can never exit that vehicle as long as the vehicle is on company property.

2. Carry permits do not override the property owner's rights. Businesses can choose to ban firearms on their premises, whether carried by patrons and/or employees, except when such bans are precluded by law (such as #1, above).

3. Willful violation of company policy is not only grounds for immediate termination, it will likely also result in you being ineligible to receive unemployment benefits and will make it hard for you to get hired elsewhere... unless you lie about the reason for termination and the company chooses not to disclose the real reason. Also, a lawyer will not be able to "get you reinstated" afterwards unless the company violated a collective bargaining agreement or a state or federal law by firing you. Employment at will is the law in every state except MT. It means that you can be fired at any time and for any reason other than an illegal reason.

4. Challenging your boss, or HR, to justify their policy and/or split hairs over the wording simply because you disagree with it, will not be productive and could very well be a career limiting maneuver. I wouldn't recommend doing this. It sounds like they have been VERY clear as to what the company's stance is, and aren't likely to entertain an argument with you over it.

Having said all that... as a fellow CC-er I certainly empathize with your plight. (Boy, do I ever. If you want some real potential for workplace violence, try being the one who fires people!) You may be able to carry pepper spray or something similar if such does not fall under the employer's definition of "weapon". You could politely express your concerns over the past confrontations and ask them what your options are in that regard. Be prepared to accept their answer, whatever it is.

If you are seeking an employer who allows CC at work, focus on very small private employers. Large companies must often create very conservative policies because federal discrimination laws don't allow them to pick and choose which individual employees they'll allow to carry and which they won't... and every large company has it's share of hot heads, fools, and people who are little... "off". So, if those folks can't carry a gun at work, no one else can either.:frown: Small businesses with less than 15 employees aren't bound by those laws and therefore they have a lot more leeway in making case-by-case decisions.

I don't carry in the workplace. I wish I could, but I understand why it's not possible. I do have several employees who shoot at the same range as me and who also have their CC permits. It really wouldn't surprise me if they were carrying at work, but I don't ask, and they don't tell.
I don't go looking for an issue, as long as an issue doesn't arise.
 
#49 ·
I have a friend who works delivering home medical supplies. One day he knocked on a door and was met by a large, aggressive K9 and it's owner. He told owner that he couldn't install the oxygen device unless she put the dog in a secure room. The "lady" proceeded to use profane language and verbally attacked him. He replied professionally that he would not take the risk of entering the home with the dog loose and that if she refused to secure the dog he would not be making a delivery there. She again replied with name calling and racial slurs. My friend then excused himself, picked up the O2 tank and proceeded to leave.

Mike made it to the curb before the female smashed him in the head from behind with a cinder block. He later told me they he didn't go unconscious he simply fell in the gutter, (he is a small guy maybe 130#'s), looking up as the thug lifted the block over her head to crush his skull. Mike said it was almost dreamlike, he realized what was happening, but he was injured to the point that he could not move or even raise his arms to ward off the blow. To hear him talk about knowing he was going to die and not being able to do anything about it was pretty surreal. Luckily some of the female's family members had heard what happened and intervened, grabbing her and holding her down. He went in and out of consciousness after that, spent a week or so in the hospital, experienced seizures and loss of memory, couldn't drive for quite a while.

It turned out the woman had a history of mental illness, had many run in's with LEO's and had spent time institutionalized. She had decided to go off her meds before this incident and had assaulted a family member earlier that week, but charges had been dropped. Mike has recovered fully and has moved up to a management position with his company since.

If I was out there visiting strangers homes by myself and was in a position where I had to possibly deliver bad news, I would want to be armed. You need to decide which is more important to you, life or a paycheck. Will the company continue to pay you if you are hurt on the job? I will also add that good jobs are few and far between right now.
 
#50 ·
It seems there is a conflict between company policy and management policy. If there is a corporate headquarters you could request they give a clarification as to which is correct. That being said, don't expect them to rule in your favor as to weapons allowed. As to your personal vehicle being used for company business. Are they paying your gas/insurance/upkeep? If not, they don't have a right to say what you can and can't have in your vehicle.

Wording in company code of conduct, "Except as allowed by law, no employee shall carry a weapon or firearm on company property including company vehicles"

During recent meeting going over entire policy member of managament, my manager's boss said that absolutely no weapons or guns are allowed, not shotgun cases in back to go hunting after work hours in company car or personal car used for business purpose.
 
#51 ·
Company policy cannot put you in jail.
Not following your own safety mindedness can put you in the hospital or worse.

This is a Spartan society, you can do what you want as long as you don't get caught, and if you do be prepared for said consequences, jobs are coming back...more available.

Do not leave an uncovered gun case or bow case in your trunk exposed. throw a blanket over it....take some time, cover your tracks, and no one will be the wiser and maybe, just maybe you will be safer for it.
 
#52 ·
I agree, the code of conduct does not agree with what managment is telling you. If your licensed to carry concealed then unless there is a no gun sign on the door of the building you are as stated in the code of conduct "provided by law" allowed to carry. I don't know if a verbal statement from a manager trumps that or not.
Sounds to me like your taking a big risk if you decide to carry. Unless your sure you can find another job, or have enough savings to hire a big time lawyer to defend you if they try and fire you I think I would not carry.

If you want to really go out on a limb ask you boss to talk to legal department as to what is meant by "provided by law" in the code of conduct. Of course that is going to make management start to really take notice of you and may get you labeled as a trouble maker.
 
#59 ·
"Except as allowed by law": To me, this phrase provides you with a legal recourse in the event you chose to carry and subsequently got fired. Unless your place of employment (and places it extend to) are expressly off limits by law, then carrying there is "allowed by law." Now, it could be one of those "win the battle but lose the war" situations if it came down to it. Only you can decide if the risk of carrying (or not carrying) is worth it to you.
 
#60 ·
Unless your place of employment (and places it extend to) are expressly off limits by law, then carrying there is "allowed by law."
It may be "allowed by law", but that doesn't mean it must be "allowed by the employer".

After all, drinking alcohol is perfectly legal, but that doesn't mean you can't get fired for doing it at work...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Topsider
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top