Non-lethal option to gun - Pepper Spray, OC Spray, Mace, whatever you call it?

This is a discussion on Non-lethal option to gun - Pepper Spray, OC Spray, Mace, whatever you call it? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Thanks for the replies. I went with the Sabre Red brand. I got some of their .54 oz keychain sprays , refills , as well ...

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Thread: Non-lethal option to gun - Pepper Spray, OC Spray, Mace, whatever you call it?

  1. #31
    Member Array gun1's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies. I went with the Sabre Red brand. I got some of their .54 oz keychain sprays, refills, as well as a practice round for each of the live .54 rounds, one of their 4.4oz Magnum 120's (with holster), a refill for the 120 Magnum, and a 9.2oz can of their bear spray with holster. I think I am set now.

    I am thinking the keychain size will be what I carry every day, that's why I got a few. I am not sure I can use the bigger 4.4oz bottles much, we'll see.

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  3. #32
    New Member Array AdvocateWomensD's Avatar
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    Hello,

    I am joining this forum because I am an advocate for empowering women for personal safety and fitness. I've been following this thread with great interest!

    I am working with a newly formed company that will be launching a solution aimed at providing safety and security for women. I am very excited to see a
    solution like this. It will give you a sense of security and confidence when you enter potentially unsafe areas.

    This is a technology solution that makes use of Smartphone Bluetooth technologies built into the phone. For example if a woman felt herself in a dangerous
    situation, a simple swipe of the device would emit the strongest legal dose of pepper spray at her attacker, while simultaneously taking a picture of the
    attacker, and announce that this picture has been submitted to local authorities.

    This device makes use of GPS tracking capabilities to alert authorities of the exact location that the incident takes place. Further, there is a service providing direct contact to a support team that will be automatically connected by phone. This service could make a 911 call on behalf of the woman under attack, in
    the case where she may be unable to do so herself.

    I believe that this device can truly empower women to be pro-active about their personal safety. I welcome your comments and feedback!

  4. #33
    New Member Array AdvocateWomensD's Avatar
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    Small world gun1....our product EmpoweredDefense will also use Sabre's line of pepper spray! I would be grateful to hear how your selection works out for
    you sometime!

  5. #34
    Member Array JungleJim's Avatar
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    Fox pepper spray sometimes, Glock 23 most of the time, SOG all the time.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdvocateWomensD View Post
    Hello,

    I am joining this forum because I am an advocate for empowering women for personal safety and fitness. I've been following this thread with great interest!

    I am working with a newly formed company that will be launching a solution aimed at providing safety and security for women. I am very excited to see a
    solution like this. It will give you a sense of security and confidence when you enter potentially unsafe areas.

    This is a technology solution that makes use of Smartphone Bluetooth technologies built into the phone. For example if a woman felt herself in a dangerous
    situation, a simple swipe of the device would emit the strongest legal dose of pepper spray at her attacker, while simultaneously taking a picture of the
    attacker, and announce that this picture has been submitted to local authorities.

    This device makes use of GPS tracking capabilities to alert authorities of the exact location that the incident takes place. Further, there is a service providing direct contact to a support team that will be automatically connected by phone. This service could make a 911 call on behalf of the woman under attack, in
    the case where she may be unable to do so herself.

    I believe that this device can truly empower women to be pro-active about their personal safety. I welcome your comments and feedback!
    Sounds interesting! Personally I view pepper as something thats hit or miss. Frankly I wish if a women was in the process of violent attack her first call would be for an ambulance because the attacker has suffered a case of extreme lead poisoning. And all she needs the police for is to process the scene and get the guys profile so they can remove him from the wanted list, and either place him in jail or process him through the cites mortuary department. However, I do understand pepper spray and its purpose for situations in which carrying a firearm is not legally allowed. I just don't have that much faith in cell phones. Having personally been the victim of road rage on route 81, being chased by a maniac 18 wheeler, calling 911 numerous times only to have dropped calls, and getting told by the state police that we should be calling the roanoke 911. This went on for over one hour driving down the road. However, good luck with your product.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdvocateWomensD View Post
    Hello,

    I am joining this forum because I am an advocate for empowering women for personal safety and fitness. I've been following this thread with great interest!

    I am working with a newly formed company that will be launching a solution aimed at providing safety and security for women. I am very excited to see a
    solution like this. It will give you a sense of security and confidence when you enter potentially unsafe areas.

    This is a technology solution that makes use of Smartphone Bluetooth technologies built into the phone. For example if a woman felt herself in a dangerous
    situation, a simple swipe of the device would emit the strongest legal dose of pepper spray at her attacker, while simultaneously taking a picture of the
    attacker, and announce that this picture has been submitted to local authorities.

    This device makes use of GPS tracking capabilities to alert authorities of the exact location that the incident takes place. Further, there is a service providing direct contact to a support team that will be automatically connected by phone. This service could make a 911 call on behalf of the woman under attack, in
    the case where she may be unable to do so herself.

    I believe that this device can truly empower women to be pro-active about their personal safety. I welcome your comments and feedback!
    Sounds interesting! Personally I view pepper as something thats hit or miss. Frankly I wish if a women was in the process of violent attack her first call would be for an ambulance because the attacker has suffered a case of extreme lead poisoning. And all she needs the police for is to process the scene and get the guys profile so they can remove him from the wanted list, and either place him in jail or process him through the cites mortuary department. However, I do understand pepper spray and its purpose for situations in which carrying a firearm is not legally allowed. I just don't have that much faith in cell phones. Having personally been the victim of road rage on route 81, being chased by a maniac 18 wheeler, calling 911 numerous times only to have dropped calls, and getting told by the state police that we should be calling the roanoke 911. This went on for over one hour driving down the road. However, good luck with your product.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  9. #38
    Member Array rugerista's Avatar
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    Non-lethal option to gun - Pepper Spray, OC Spray, Mace, whatever you call it?

    Quote Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post
    pepper sptay/OC is nice, but it doesn't work on everyone. What does work on everyone is a tazer, an ASP, and a sap.
    It is one of my frustrations that in Texas it is legal for me to carry a handgun with a CHL but illegal to carry a SAP or Blackjack.

    A blackjack would be a better tool than a handgun in some instances. A CHL should be a weapons permit not just handguns.

  10. #39
    VIP Member Array xXxplosive's Avatar
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    Sabre Spitfire............my wife almost cleared out a hotel after someone who thought it was a lighter tried to light their ciggy and the spray got sucked into the airconditioner duct......people on all the floors were caughing from just one little tiny spray........Potent....and .....she could tell ya.

  11. #40
    Member Array Gunnie's Avatar
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    The one thing I see with spray other then obvious that it can spray back into your face. My grandmother was having problems with a neibhors dog we spoke with him several times about him being aggressive and attacking her and her dog while walking. I offered to end the situation and after looking into the laws decided that since to me the dog "large golden retriever" would not be justifiable for me to make a target, the neibhors would do nothing so I have her a can of bear spray. This worked really well however within twenty mins the dog was back at her she had walked to end of road and came back. The bear spray would be much more potent then what we would be able to carry for defense against a person and as quickly as it wore off I would stay away. A taser in my opinion and from experiance would work much better plus you are less likely to injure ypurself

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    I just don't have that much faith in cell phones.
    I understand what you are saying. I have a lot of experience cross-country traveling and know what you're saying about cell coverage and being transferred to the wrong dispatch center (I have experienced both on separate occasions, the latter about 2 weeks before Thanksgiving).

    However, I think there may be a whole world of smartphone technology that you are not aware of. If you pay any attention to TED conferences you will note that there hare been some interesting photo technologies that have been demonstrated. The two that I remember over the past couple years was a technology that combined GPS with pictures in that when a picture was taken of a landmark it would be combined with other pictures on a server and produce a 3D rendering of that landmark. Another was the real-time 3D glasses, might have been part of a Google project, that allowed the participants with the "glasses" to share experiences. In the demonstration that was done there was a "relay" set up between a sky diver and the guy sitting in front of an audience of about 500 people (plus the cameras) that had everyone that was part of it (every stage of the relay - guy jumping out of plane and the 3-4 other steps getting from the roof of the building to the room of the presentation) wearing the special glasses so the whole event was broadcast on the screen the presenter had.

    How does that relate to self-defense? Combine a can of pepper spray with a camera. Just like the technology that allows the 3D rendering of landmarks - when you release the pepper spray the camera takes pictures. The pictures are uploaded to a server. The authorities are alerted.

    I don't get in to the "smartphone craze" like some do, but I am aware of some of the technologies that are surrounding the use of them - enough that I can relate to the direction AdvocateWomensD is going with combining the smartphone technology with self-defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdvocateWomensD View Post
    Hello,

    I am joining this forum because I am an advocate for empowering women for personal safety and fitness. I've been following this thread with great interest!

    I welcome your comments and feedback!
    I don't want to be negative in any way, I certainly would encourage the development of such a technology to offer to the self-defense industry, but what I would also say, having said that, is that the technology on the surface, in the idea or form of which it is being developed in, may not be what you end up with. All the roads that you go down and the obstacles that you overcome will ultimately guide the end result. I can see populated areas (cities, suburbs) where this technology would have a higher following. It may even be something that takes off in areas like NYC and Chicago where concealed carry of firearms is not allowed (the whole state of Illinois for that matter). Those could even be higher areas of marketing effort to look in to as well.

    Last comment - no matter what device or technology that you bring to self-defense - there has to be adequate training, and proof-of-concept, to be effective. It also has to be something that is functional when the operator encounters an extremely high stress situation. Fine motor skills are gone in high stress. I don't think swiping the screen of a smartphone would be immune (maybe for some, but not the general population) to that. Whatever form the device takes would have to be something that could be operated with no fine motor skill. Good practice - dunk your hands in ice water for 5-10 minutes then try it. Feeling is gone, movements become coarse, etc.
    AdvocateWomensD likes this.

  13. #42
    Member Array gun1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnie View Post
    A taser in my opinion and from experiance would work much better plus you are less likely to injure ypurself
    The catch is the greater majority (unless you have a special kind) require you to be in direct contact with the attacker (whether that be 2-legged or 4-legged). I'd like to maintain my distance. Even better is to put an obstacle between the attacker and myself to make contact that much more difficult.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Stick with the stream and always buy two...practice with one on a windy day,
    The fog is deadly for everyone, including the victim...I know this from experience.
    Fox and others sell practice canisters that do not contain pepper.

  15. #44
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    I have used Pepper Spray and Pepper Foam in the line of duty many, many times on humans and dogs. I actually like the foam better as it seemed to stay in more of a directional stream in winds and was easier for me to visually track because of its color.

    That said, 10% Pepper Foam never failed to drop a sane individual threatening assault withing seconds and turn them into whimpering bags of jello, but just made dogs sit and look pitiful, like they were thinking, "Why did you wanna go and do THAT! You are a mean man.... )

    I have also had both Pepper Foam and Pepper Spray fail spectacularly when the human suspect was either doped up or mentally off kilter (Or as we use to say in southeast Texas, Throwed Off), with them just wiping their eyes and giving me that, "Whoa, ya done did it now!" look. It was never any fun after that.

    So if sprays can and will fail on a human sized target, I do not trust it to anything to a bear sized creature that wants to kill and or eat me. Further, to be effective you have to be within about ten to fifteen feet of the target for accurate use, and being that close to a bear and THEN finding out it is not working is not my idea of a good end to the day.

    My recommendation is that if you are going into bear territory, carry something easily accessible that throws ample lead down range in caliber sizes that can stop a Polar Bear, just in case. Better yet, have several friends with you that are also packing sizable firearms and send a wall of lead at the attacking creatures. Bears do not play fair. They play to win, and you should do the same.
    Fortune Favors the Bold!

  16. #45
    Member Array KyBill's Avatar
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    Our instructor taught our class that in Ky the license is as you describe, permitting concealed carry of deadly weapons including I believe brass nuckles, nunchaks, batons, etc. But the actual course content was geared towards handguns, range qualification and several hours of video and discussion centered on KY statures and when the use of deadly force was justified.

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