Burglar Shot in Flower Mound, TX

Burglar Shot in Flower Mound, TX

This is a discussion on Burglar Shot in Flower Mound, TX within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This story has a twist, however. A teen, and in fact a prior employee, in the DFW area car dealership was in the building at ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 37

Thread: Burglar Shot in Flower Mound, TX

  1. #1
    Member Array Jason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    TEXAS
    Posts
    37

    Burglar Shot in Flower Mound, TX

    This story has a twist, however.

    A teen, and in fact a prior employee, in the DFW area car dealership was in the building at night. Another employee who was a mechanic with the dealership was asked to play "security guard" for the evening. When the "guard" saw the individual in the dealership, he apparently took matters in his own hands and shot the teen.

    The teen was shot in the back twice and was found just outside the building.

    The "guard" told the police the teen was stealing money from the cash register.

    In fact, there is no cash in the register, as all employees are aware. The teen had no money on him or any weapons.

    According to friends, the teen was carrying out a prank. There is a door at the dealership that doesn't lock and that how he got in. Apparently all the employees know of this door. The prank had something to do with snack food (taking it?). The snack food was found in the teen's bag.

    While I agree the teen was in the wrong and committed a crime, it is apparent that the "guard" was an inexperienced and ill-trained individual.

    This is likely to be a perfect case for anti-gun folks to throw about.

    It saddens me to see stories like this. An individual lost his life because of the poor training of someone with a gun.

    Gun ownership is a responsibility and like most people on this board, I take it seriously. I'm glad there are forums out there like this one to help new CCW holders. I cannot stress enough how important it is to train in marksmanship, scenarios, and critical thinking skills.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....53721cec.html


  2. #2
    Assistant Administrator
    Array P95Carry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    South West PA
    Posts
    25,484
    Jason - well yes, this is in the category of those cases we dread. There have been other cases where pranks have gone very sour but here it seems most unlikely the guy was presented by any lethal threat at all - and he in effect ''executed'' someone pilfering.

    I would fully expect this to tried as a murder charge and for sure yes - it badly hurts us all who are responsible CCW's
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  3. #3
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    20,193
    Oh boy, sad story. I feel bad for all involved, but ignorance is no excuse. Note to self... never ask a mechanic to be a security guard.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    south Florida
    Posts
    3,168
    Reminds me of the case here in Florida where the 16-year-old kid was doing that stupid game of "knock on the door late at night and then run away" (gotta be a real genius to find that fun).

    A man at this one house was an armed homeowner, and he thought he saw a weapon in the hand of the kid, so he shot him on the front yard. Turns out the "weapon" was a spool of fishing line or something that he and his friend were using to tie to the doorknocker to knock it from a distance.

    I don't remember how the case turned out, or if it is settled yet. (And since I can't remember the names, I'll have a hard time trying to google it.)

    Anyway, when people do stupid things, yes, they should be aware that there may be consequences. We'd like to think that a prank that was not going to cause anyone any harm should not be punishable by death! But the fact remains that things can get misinterpreted or mistaken, especially in the dark of night. People living in the modern world would do well to rethink their "need" to go and commit these pranks, and should be circumspect about what oddball eventualities might come to pass.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Rigby, Idaho
    Posts
    5,142
    Kids do pranks, they always will, not thinking anything of it. This is where we need to pay real attention and know what, and why we are shooting in the first place. Sorry, shooting someone in the back because you think he's stealing isn't one of them.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    USN 78-82/USAF 82-93 Medically Retired
    Desert Shield/Desert Storm
    DAV Life Member
    NRA Life Member

  6. #6
    Ex Member Array one eyed fatman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    500
    You have to be licensed to be a security guard. There ain't no play crap to it. Either you have a license or you don't. If you don't have a license your not playing anything other than being a *******. I hope they hang the ******* that hired the ******* to "play" security guard too. Course this all happened at a dealership where people "play" mechanic. Hang em both or let Bubba have em.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    6,781
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Oh boy, sad story. I feel bad for all involved, but ignorance is no excuse. Note to self... never ask a mechanic to be a security guard.
    Agreed.
    Minor edit though.
    Never ask a non-security guard person to be a security guard.
    The employer is in for a heap of trouble via civil liability and was a moron on several levels.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  8. #8
    Member Array Biloxi Bersa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Biloxi Mississippi
    Posts
    399
    Sounds like lawsuit city. Not only for the shooter but for the dealership as well.

    Having an untrained, unlicensed person act as a security guard; many employees knowing about a damaged lock and not making any attempt to repair it; certainly not a clean shoot with an attempt to cover it up.

    These are the types of lawsuits that can can destroy a small business.

    They best hustle them up a good lawyer and try for a settlement.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Franklin, VA
    Posts
    5,155
    Legally, in VA, IIRC, you must be licensed to contract for security, or to work for a security firm. An employee who "defends" his employer, or is hired in-house, may be a little different.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,863
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    It saddens me to see stories like this. An individual lost his life because of the poor training of someone with a gun.
    The cause was the criminal's furtive movements, his intrusion onto private property, his rooting around a "cash register" area. That was the cause of his being stopped by folks rightfully charged with protecting that property.

    In Texas, think of a similar situation, where a homeowner shoots to stop his car or shed being broken into; such situations are generally seen as "clean shoots" (in Texas) from the viewpoint of protecting property. I don't agree with the execution-for-property exchange, but that's just me, and it's not relevant to this case. In this case, a reasonable person would conclude he was an intruder and committing a crime, and (being Texas), that force was authorized to protect that property. But, would a reasonable person conclude that he was a dire threat and that lethal force was required to stop his actions? Doesn't appear so, with what we know. Texas does allow folks the use of lethal force in protection of property they own or have legal right to be/protect (ie, a shop where the person has been assigned "guard" duties). However, does that legal umbrella reach to cover simple trespass, without weapon, without threats, without (known?) cash in the register, without any property in hand? Doubtful.

    That said, there are the obvious points: He was a previous employee, known to many; the cash register was known "to all" (?) to have no cash at that time of day; a mechanic as acting security guard for an evening suggests he was untrained and would have little conception of basic principles; the intruder was found later with two shots in the back outside the door to the "cash register" office.

    That's a bad combination of circumstances. Unknown whether commands were issued to stop, drop whatever weapon might have been held, get down, remain prostrate, etc. Unknown at what distance the shooting occurred. Unknown whether the intruder threatened the mechanic/guard and "rushed" him.

    Still, all in all, it doesn't look like a good circumstance to have shot at someone, knowing what we know at this point, despite it being in Texas. The mechanic/guard needs a good attorney right about now. I'd be surprised if the D.A. didn't file charges on this guy.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; October 22nd, 2006 at 03:15 PM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #11
    Member Array TC-TX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Denton Co.
    Posts
    325

    ...simple trespass, without weapon, without threats???

    Sorry ccw9mm - this is NOT simple trespass... Under Texas State law this is Burglary. It does not matter whether a weapon was present nor if there is a motive nor if there were any threats. Notice the absence of a Culpable Mental State in the P.C. stated below.

    REMEMBER - there is NO such thing as Attempted Burglary (not in Texas anyway...)

    Texas Penal Code
    TITLE 7. OFFENSES AGAINST PROPERTY
    CHAPTER 30. BURGLARY AND CRIMINAL TRESPASS
    Sec. 30.02. Burglary.
    (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner, the person:
    (1) enters a habitation, or a building (or any portion of a building) not then open to the public, with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault; or
    (2) remains concealed, with intent to commit a felony, theft, or an assault, in a building or habitation; or
    (3) enters a building or habitation and commits or attempts to commit a felony, theft, or an assault.
    (b) For purposes of this section, "enter" means to intrude:
    (1) any part of the body; or
    (2) any physical object connected with the body.

    For all of you out there jumping to conclusions, a couple of points need to be cleared up...

    IN TEXAS, Private Property owners can give effective consent to another (not necessarily a Security Guard) to protects ones property in ones absence, and will be afforded the same rights and responsibilities as the Owner. This includes the use of Deadly force in defense of ones property (including that of another party) at night.

    If the discovered truth and facts surrounding this case are close to those being reported, as a licensed investigator in the State of Texas, I believe this to be a good shoot for several reasons.

    cw9mm - you lay out a couple of the very well.

    I too am not saying that I agree with the Use-of-deadly-force-for-property exchange... That, even though it is State law, is not the question in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    here it seems most unlikely the guy was presented by any lethal threat at all - and he in effect ''executed'' someone pilfering.
    Sorry P95Carry - I respectfully submit here that you are incorrect in your summation. A LETHAL THREAT is NOT a requirement to exercise Defense of Ones Property At Night in Texas. Use yourself and your property as a personal example. Someone burglarizes your home with you inside - do you wait for the definitive signs of a lethal Threat before taking action?

    Additionally - the guy was not executed - he was STOPPED. Period.

    If he WAS given verbal commands to stop - and ignored them - he should have listened and voluntarily complied. *The question of whether or not he was given commands to stop is irrelevant in this case. In defense of Ones Property - In TEXAS - there is NO requirement to issue STOP commands to an intruder. The Assumption under the law is that a burglar is there to do you harm. Period.

    On the surface - I agree this is an unfortunate situation.

    But PLEASE quit blaming the property owner and the third person protecting the property owners interest for this event. The blame and responsibility and culpability for this event rests squarely on the shoulders of the person committing the crime.

    Period.
    Semper Fi ~

    Eagle Scout 1975
    U.S.M.C. 1978-84
    Commercial Pilot
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Certified Flight Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    NRA Life Member
    TSRA Member

    www.TexasArmament.com

  12. #12
    Member Array TC-TX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Denton Co.
    Posts
    325

    NO NO NO NO NO!!! No Jason!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason
    An individual lost his life because of the poor training of someone with a gun.
    No Jason - someone lost his life because he was stupid and acting in a criminal manner.

    Based on the facts as they have been revealed in the media, I would suggest to you that the fellow with the gun was actually Well Trained. He performed his mission - to LEGALLY protect to interests of another - quite well.

    It is unfortunate - I agree...
    ...It is unfortunate that stupid individuals will resort to felonious acts and try to pass them off as 'pranks'.
    ...It is unfortunate that the shooter - acting in legal defense of self and/or property - was put in this situation by the criminal.
    ...It is unfortunate that individuals will try to indict a person for legally defending that which is defensible under the law, while - at the same time - trying to justify and rationalize the criminal behavior of an individual perpetrator and portraying him as a 'victim'.

    A person who commits a Criminal Act should be held accountable.

    A person who justifiably acts under the code of law should be exonerated.
    Semper Fi ~

    Eagle Scout 1975
    U.S.M.C. 1978-84
    Commercial Pilot
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Certified Flight Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    NRA Life Member
    TSRA Member

    www.TexasArmament.com

  13. #13
    Member Array TC-TX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Denton Co.
    Posts
    325
    BTW - One last thing for now...

    This KID was an ADULT... Lets tell it like it really is.
    Semper Fi ~

    Eagle Scout 1975
    U.S.M.C. 1978-84
    Commercial Pilot
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Certified Flight Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    NRA Life Member
    TSRA Member

    www.TexasArmament.com

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,863
    Quote Originally Posted by TC-TX View Post
    Sorry ccw9mm - this is NOT simple trespass... Under Texas State law this is Burglary.
    I tried very hard not to characterize any of it. My perspective is from that of someone who has lived in California and Oregon, where trespass is presence and burglary is the actual theft. Silly distinctions, to my way of thinking, and yet they exist. A crime is a crime. One should be able to stop it using what force is necessary. Unknown whether anything was actually in the process of being taken, in this case ... hence, my referring to it by what was known, trespass. Of course, as pointed out, laws in Texas differ on this point. Unknown whether the guard was overtly and physically threatened, either.

    Use yourself and your property as a personal example. Someone burglarizes your home with you inside - do you wait for the definitive signs of a lethal Threat before taking action?
    Apples and oranges comparison. A home is absolutely different, as it's occupied. An unoccupied business outside of business hours is wholly different, from the standpoint of direct threat to occupants ... since there aren't any, normally. Generally speaking, trespass or burglary isn't necessarily placing anyone in direct physical threat from the crime. Again, I'm referring to distinctions made in places outside of Texas, where typically property crimes and person crimes have differing standards for what steps may / may not be taken to stop a crime. Understood that Texas allows for little distinction to be made between property and person crimes, at night and on property one has the right or granted duty to protect.

    The thing for folks to remember is that varying standards can apply, depending on where you live and which laws your state has. The most-restrictive (or "higher" standard, if you will) is to require actual jeopardy of the person in order to leverage deadly force against an intruder. Though, who's to say that this intruder didn't overtly attack and attempt to disarm the guard? Not enough info, though in such a case, it would certainly appear to qualify as a justified self-defense shooting in any state. As it stands, I agree that it may well be seen as a justified shoot by the basic Texas standards of property crimes, despite the appearances in this short blurb.

    Further, I agree absolutely that the cause of this and the subsequent actions lay squarely on the criminal's head. May he be able to come up with a good reason for his misdeeds, as he kneels before The Gates.

    A person who commits a Criminal Act should be held accountable. A person who justifiably acts under the code of law should be exonerated.
    Absolutely. Every time.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #15
    Member Array TC-TX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Denton Co.
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm
    Apples and oranges comparison
    WRONG. private property is Private Property. PERIOD NO DISTINCTION - NO DIFFERENCE in Texas. And remember it is irrelevant if something was actually taken OR if anyone was threatened. It does Not matter...

    The most-restrictive (or "higher" standard, if you will) is to require actual jeopardy of the person in order to leverage deadly force against an intruder.
    Who wishes to operate under laws that give extra consideration to the person Committing a Crime? I am NOT a fan of giving ANY Advantage to the Criminal in ANY Case...

    Your point about Standards is Exactly My Point - All of the standards by which we conduct ourselves under Texas law were (on the surface of the information we have at the moment) met in every instance, in every respect.

    I personally know the owner of this dealership AND I have previously served on the Grand Jury in this same county. I am very familiar with all of the background information in this case... We live only a few miles from the dealership.

    Based on the information at hand, I hope it is no-billed very soon...
    Semper Fi ~

    Eagle Scout 1975
    U.S.M.C. 1978-84
    Commercial Pilot
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Certified Flight Instructor
    NRA Certified Instructor
    NRA Life Member
    TSRA Member

    www.TexasArmament.com

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Good: Home invaders shot with own gun: Blue Mound, TX
    By gddyup in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: September 6th, 2008, 01:05 AM
  2. BAD- Man shot by burglar with his own gun [merge]
    By Fmr18z in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: May 10th, 2008, 06:53 AM
  3. Burglar Shot By Homeowner
    By CT-Mike in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: March 18th, 2008, 01:44 PM
  4. Memphis burglar shot by homeowner
    By citizen510 in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: January 26th, 2008, 08:23 PM
  5. Burglar shot by homeowner in Kent, WA
    By matiki in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: December 28th, 2007, 07:41 PM

Search tags for this page

can i shoot in flower mound
,
concealed carry flower mound
,
flower mound burglary
,

flower mound gun laws

,

flower mound shooting

,
flower mound texas shooting
,
shooting flower mound
,
shooting in flower mound
,
shooting in flower mound texas
,

shooting in flower mound tx

,
teen killed in flower mound tx
,
texas burglar killed
Click on a term to search for related topics.