CCL And Churches

This is a discussion on CCL And Churches within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Texas law states that CCL holders May NOT carry a handgun into a place of worship. I am wondering... if a church is "incorporated"... and ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 52
Like Tree27Likes

Thread: CCL And Churches

  1. #1
    New Member Array RugerRules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    13

    CCL And Churches

    Texas law states that CCL holders May NOT carry a handgun into a place of worship.

    I am wondering... if a church is "incorporated"... and that church holds an open business meeting and takes a vote to allow valid CCL holders to carry in their church... is it legal to do so at that point?

    Could a church put up signs at each entrance stating valid CCL holders ARE allowed to carry a handgun on these premises?

    Seems to me the state should have no legal right to restrict carry when the people of a church desire to do so.

    Churches are getting robbed at an increasing rate and if criminals KNOW the people are NOT ALLOWED to arm themselves, then we are sitting ducks... especially with offerings being received at every service and lots of cash on hand.

    Got any ideas on this? I would appreciate your thoughts

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Ex Member Array gregnsc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    455
    In S.C a ccw holder can only carry,in a church,if he, or she has permission from the Pastor,or whoever is in charge at the time.
    RugerRules likes this.

  4. #3
    New Member Array RugerRules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    13
    I haven't seen anything about "permission" in Texas... I HOPE that is the case here as well.
    Anyone know if Texas has a "Permission" rule?

  5. #4
    Member Array RevTracy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    133
    I carry at my church, except while I am leading worship, and I have encouraged two of my members to do the same. One gentleman is a retired Brigadier General and the other is a champion skeet and trap shooter. Any BG walking into my church will not be walking out...

  6. #5
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    15,979
    "Texas law states that CCL holders May NOT carry a handgun into a place of worship."

    Unless you can find some statute giving a church some sort of exemption to the above, that says it all.
    Jetfuelrm likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array Jemsaal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    az
    Posts
    748
    Legally, I think it should be up to the church.

    Spiritually - I have a hard time using force to defend something that is "God's to defend." I feel the same way about myself. If I'm confronted by deadly force and in the course of the confrontation I find out it's about my faith, my weapon is staying holstered.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Jetfuelrm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Cape Coral Florida
    Posts
    2,167
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    "Texas law states that CCL holders May NOT carry a handgun into a place of worship."

    Unless you can find some statute giving a church some sort of exemption to the above, that says it all.
    That pretty much says it all I would think.
    "As a strong supporter of our 2nd Amendment rights, I believe tougher enforcement of our nation's existing gun laws must be done before any more laws are enacted and put on the books."
    Jeff Miller

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    2,891
    Not certain about my denomination (Episcopal) but I know several who have their carry permits both WV and OH.

    I don't "ask" if they carry, they don't "ask" me. We just smile and say.....oh well!
    "A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"

    The Man Prayer. "Im a man, I can change, if I have to.....I guess!" ~ Red Green

  10. #9
    New Member Array RugerRules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    13
    RevTracy said "...Any BG (bad guys) walking into my church will not be walking out... "

    "Save 'em or Kill 'em" hey... that could be our next promo... hehehehe

    Ya know? I think I'll have my ushers start carrying... JUST THINK of the offerings we can TAKE then! WooHoo! (people accuse us churches of "robbing" 'em anyway. Let's give them something to REALLY complain about!) We are On A ROLL now. hehehe

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Yoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    2,782
    Quote Originally Posted by RugerRules View Post
    I haven't seen anything about "permission" in Texas... I HOPE that is the case here as well.
    Anyone know if Texas has a "Permission" rule?
    In Texas places of worship must be posted with the 30.06 sign (or handed a card with the same language) for it to be considered trespassing (while carrying).
    BenGoodLuck likes this.
    Yoda, I am, yes.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,768
    Quote Originally Posted by RugerRules View Post
    Texas law states that CCL holders May NOT carry a handgun into a place of worship.

    I am wondering... if a church is "incorporated"... and that church holds an open business meeting and takes a vote to allow valid CCL holders to carry in their church... is it legal to do so at that point?

    Could a church put up signs at each entrance stating valid CCL holders ARE allowed to carry a handgun on these premises?

    Seems to me the state should have no legal right to restrict carry when the people of a church desire to do so.

    Churches are getting robbed at an increasing rate and if criminals KNOW the people are NOT ALLOWED to arm themselves, then we are sitting ducks... especially with offerings being received at every service and lots of cash on hand.

    Got any ideas on this? I would appreciate your thoughts
    You need to read the rest of the law. Stopping where you did, did you a disservice. Carry in churches in Texas is not prohibited.
    Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;(5) in an amusement park; or(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.(f) In this section:(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9. Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1214, Sec. 2 (h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b) and (c) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, was:(1) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or(2) a bailiff designated by the active judicial officer and engaged in escorting the officer. Text of subsection as added by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 1222, Sec. 5 (h-1) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the time of the commission of the offense, the actor was:(1) a judge or justice of a federal court;(2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or(3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney, criminal district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, county attorney, or assistant county attorney.(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.(k) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(1) that the actor was not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code.
    If there is not a 30.06 sign posted, churches, ammusement parks, hospitals and governmental meetings are no longer off limits for CHL holders.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
    www.ddchl.com
    Texas CHL Instructor
    Texas Hunter Education Instructor
    NRA Instructor

  13. #12
    New Member Array RugerRules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    13
    Jemsaal said... "Spiritually - I have a hard time using force to defend something that is "God's to defend." I feel the same way about myself. If I'm confronted by deadly force and in the course of the confrontation I find out it's about my faith, my weapon is staying holstered."

    I agree to a point... but if someone wants to do harm to others... I feel an obligation to protect them, especially my family and children.

  14. #13
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion County, Ohio
    Posts
    10,173
    Quote Originally Posted by Jemsaal View Post
    Legally, I think it should be up to the church.

    Spiritually - I have a hard time using force to defend something that is "God's to defend." I feel the same way about myself. If I'm confronted by deadly force and in the course of the confrontation I find out it's about my faith, my weapon is staying holstered.
    Mine isn't.
    aus71383 and suntzu like this.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

  15. #14
    New Member Array RugerRules's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    13
    Hey Farronwolf.... Thanks a BUNCH for you input. My info came also from my CHL instructor. Guess he needs some "updating" as well.
    You are saying... as long as there is NO 30.06 sign posted on my church, then there is NO Prohibition to CHL holders carrying in the church?

    That is JUST what I was looking for.

    I appreciate all the input.

  16. #15
    New Member Array calpoly12000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by RugerRules View Post
    Jemsaal said... "Spiritually - I have a hard time using force to defend something that is "God's to defend." I feel the same way about myself. If I'm confronted by deadly force and in the course of the confrontation I find out it's about my faith, my weapon is staying holstered."

    I agree to a point... but if someone wants to do harm to others... I feel an obligation to protect them, especially my family and children.
    I also have to say that even Jesus agrees with the right to defend yourself. Jesus himself said, "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword." Matt. 26:52. Jesus also said, "But now whoever has a purse or a bag, must take it and whoever does not have a sword must sell his cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

    I believe there are a few more cases where even in the New testament, Jesus encourages his followers to defend themselves. When it comes to someone threatening you with your life, it's not a "turn the other cheek" moment. That is a moment where you exercise your right to live and protect yourself.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

are you allowe to carry a gun in a place of worship in texas

,
can texas chl holders carry concealed in a church
,

can you carry a gun in a place of worship in texas

,
can you carry a handgun in a church in texas in 2013
,

in texas are you allowed to carry in church

,

is it legal for a ccl to carry at church

,
is it legal to carry a pistol in a place of worship in texas
,

it is unlawful to carry a handgun into a chuch even if you work there?

,

picture of 30.06 sign

,
tcha civilian carry
,
texas ccl church
,

why don't churches post 30.06 signs

Click on a term to search for related topics.