Question of the day: firearm self-defense "rules of thumb"

This is a discussion on Question of the day: firearm self-defense "rules of thumb" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Massad Ayoob has been referenced here a couple of times and if you have not read his book, In the Gravest Extreme , you should ...

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Thread: Question of the day: firearm self-defense "rules of thumb"

  1. #31
    Member Array dglockster's Avatar
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    Massad Ayoob has been referenced here a couple of times and if you have not read his book, In the Gravest Extreme, you should do so. Even though it was written in 1980, much of the information that the book contains is still relevant and of course, some of the information is outdated. For example, the first post in this thread could have come straight from his writings as could have many of the follow-up posts.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    The Self Defense 'Rule of thumb' ............. If you need to pull a gun, then it better be reliable. And when the cops show up, don't have the gun in your hand. Next admit you are the victim and say nothing until you get a lawyer.

    It's always better to avoid the confrontation (Lawyers, stress, jail, cops, etc). Forget the Road Rage, goofy neighbors, and bad situations.

  3. #33
    Distinguished Member Array dben002's Avatar
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    I have not been on this forum long....but long enough to see that there are those here who understand, believe in, and practice the laws of deadly force in accordance with the laws as stated. I have also seen there are many who don't have a clue and seem to think their concealed gun it the answer to any and all problems justified to use it or not...I admire the former, I am terrified of the latter.
    ws76133, NewtownSam and Hoganbeg like this.

  4. #34
    Member Array DroidGeorge's Avatar
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    Re: Question of the day: firearm self-defense "rules of thumb"

    My favorite Ayoob quote - "friends don't let friends carry mouse guns".

    George
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  5. #35
    VIP Member Array lchamp's Avatar
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    I read the books and take occasional refresher courses. I just hope I make the right decisions when the adrenalin hits.

  6. #36
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    This forum thread dates to 2006 guys. OK I'll let it stay open since it seems to have renewed interest.
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  7. #37
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    OK I'll let it stay open since it seems to have renewed interest.
    Everyone on DC with the power to close a thread HAS let this thread stay open for 6+ years. I wonder why not automatically close an idle thread after, say, 3 months...

  8. #38
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    The Deadly Force Triangle:
    1. Ability -- An attacker must posess the power to kill or inflict crippling injury on the innocent;
    2. Opportunity -- An attacker must be capable of immediately employing that power in an attack. It's a function of many factors, including distance, time, barriers (ie, a door, wall, car between you); and
    3. Jeopardy -- An attacker must be acting in such a manner that a reasonable and prudent person would conclude that the attacker had manifest intent to kill or inflict crippling injury.

    In one phrase, essentially, justified use of lethal force requires that the innocent be in immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm.
    This is it at its most basic and seems pretty clear to me. Altho I do not support required training for gun owners or cc, I think responsible gun owners should end up with this basic primer at some point. ALL are required to know their state's laws and this boils the basics down for ANY state AFAIK.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsquidgator View Post
    1) If you have to shoot someone, don't shoot them in the back (hard to argue self-defense for you).
    2) If you have to shoot someone, they'd better not be more than 20 feet away (hard to argue self-defense for you).
    3) If you have to shoot someone in self-defense, you'd better stop the guy and it'll be better for you if he's not in shape to fib on you and say you instigated it. Kinda along the lines of better if he's not going to be talking, period.

    ?
    "Easy to remember" cliches arent going to help you in a court of law. You are responsible for understanding the laws in your state...ALL of them. For using a gun at home, on your property/vehicle, and CC.

    The above sound more like old housewives' tales and nothing I'd bet my freedom or house (legal fees) on.

    Jeopardy, ability, opportunity.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  10. #40
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    I didn't notice how old this thread was - just read through the whole thing. I don't like making rules in advance. I certainly think it's a good idea to have an idea what the laws in your state are. That said - I will do what I have to do, one way or another. It will all come out in the wash. Lastly - and most importantly - I'd like to share this video....

    Dont Talk to Police - YouTube

    Austin

  11. #41
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    Great post!

  12. #42
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    If you're involved in a SD shooting, you'll be arrested, spend time in jail, and spend $75000 on legal fees.

    I read that on the Internet. It has to be true.
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  13. #43
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    These discussions do not specifically deal with confrontations within the home. It seems to me that if I were to apply these rules to a confrontation with a BG in my home, I could easily be dead before I decide to act. For example: I go to investigate a "bump in the night" and see a man standing in my living room 15 feet a way from me. I don't see his hands, he's close enough to be on me in seconds, and I have my gun trained on him. According to the rules mentioned, I shouldn't shoot? Or, would a "reasonable and prudent person" confronted by an intruder be in fear of their wellbeing sufficiently to be justified in shooting said intruder?

    I've always felt that if someone broke into my house and confronted me I would shoot them, period. I'm not willing to risk life and limb (or those of my family) to check off a bunch of boxes to determine if I'm justified in stopping a perceived threat in my own home.

    This thread seems infer otherwise..... Am I missing something?

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Everyone on DC with the power to close a thread HAS let this thread stay open for 6+ years. I wonder why not automatically close an idle thread after, say, 3 months...
    Well guess what, this 9 year-old thread just got re-opened after a 3-year snooze. I'm not sure if that qualifies for the Lazarus or the Rip Van Winkle Award.
    Last edited by gasmitty; November 14th, 2015 at 12:01 PM.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Well guess what, this 9 year-old thread just got re-opened after a 3-year snooze. I'm not sure if thet qualifies for the Lazarus or the Rip Van Winkle Award.
    There are some remarkable aspects to this very old thread, one of which being the fact that the OP has only received one like from a total of 279 posts. Out of forty-four posts, only a total of twenty likes have been awarded. Besides, the 21-foot rule never grows old.
    Invincible ignorance...look it up.

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