Bad encounter with a LEO

This is a discussion on Bad encounter with a LEO within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The van drivers first mistake was to exit his vehicle. Second mistake was to grab his wallet and pull it out the way he did. ...

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Thread: Bad encounter with a LEO

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array GreyGhost's Avatar
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    The van drivers first mistake was to exit his vehicle. Second mistake was to grab his wallet and pull it out the way he did. Way too fast. I'm sure once the officer saw the gun he immediately realized he could have been shot in that instant.

    Don't get out of your vehicle until told. And move slowly. I honestly can't blame the cop for being jumpy.

    I'm not going to fault the cop for cuffing the driver. He has to make the situation safe. However once the permit was checked he should have been released. As for his colorful language, no big deal to me.
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  3. #47
    Member Array ChrisMia's Avatar
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    Guy shouldn't have gotten out of the vehicle. Frankly, that would me more threatening to me as an LEO - when the driver is standing face to face to him just feet from each other, a potential attack was a fraction of a second away. Guy should've stayed in the car.

    That said, piss poor job by the LEO. Should've told the guy to stay in his vehicle when he saw him getting out. Then overreacted after seing the driver's firearm, no doubt - as evidenced by the comments he makes throughout - because he then realized he let himself be in a potentially disadvantageous position.

    To boot, he doesn't know Florida's CCW laws. Section 790.053, Florida Statutes (2012) provides that it is NOT a crime for a licensed CCW'er to briefly expose his/her firearm, so long as it is not done in an angry/threatening manner. The accidental, brief exposure in the video clearly falls under that.
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  4. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisMia View Post
    To boot, he doesn't know Florida's CCW laws. Section 790.053, Florida Statutes (2012) provides that it is NOT a crime for a licensed CCW'er to briefly expose his/her firearm, so long as it is not done in an angry/threatening manner. The accidental, brief exposure in the video clearly falls under that.
    This video was supposely made in 2009, before the recent change in accidental exposure. That still doesn't justify attitudes and reactions.
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  5. #49
    VIP Member Array Jetfuelrm's Avatar
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    I can see where the LEO would have gotten a bit edgy with this person getting out of their vehicle. He should have stayed put. However what I do not agree with how he handled the situation after the accidental exposure. I would have asked him to return to the vehicle. Even if this was before the recent change I would not have arrested him. He was not threatening. I might have spoken to him about the weapon being exposed and try to be really careful in the future. The LEO was out of line in my opinion and hopefully is still not gainfully employed. I was an LEO for 11 years and thankfully we didn't have people like this working in our department.
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  6. #50
    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    What ever the outcome was it did, as in most cases, cost the taxpayers to defend a poorly trained officer with a bad attitude. Unbeknown to the Taxpayers cases such as this, in my area anyway, many are settled out of court, for a agreed upon cash settlement and department action against the officer. Why? To keep the bad press at a minimum and to eliminate the high legal fees of a court case. Sorry to say many are not , and based on past experience, the local attorney's would have jumped all over this driver to take his case.

    GreyGhost your statement "As for the colorful language, no big deal to me", well it is to me and the use of foul language should appear in the departments letter of termination or letter of reprimanded.
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  7. #51
    Distinguished Member Array dben002's Avatar
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    Not real clear on this but I have heard that NRA members are offered some kind of insurance for this very situation...might want to check their web site.
    There are two types of people who carry concealed weapons...Responsible ones and Irresponsible ones...which are you...

  8. #52
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    ...Motorist should have stayed in vehicle...Leo would not have been scared and responded like a little girl. Epic fail all around.


    Cop seems to be better suited to be the night watchman at the old folks home instead of being a policeman.
    Gotta agree. You do not get out of your car unless instructed. LEO was way off base in several ways and should be disciplined and taught about the law and what being an LEO is all about.

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Is it against the law to get out of your vehicle during a traffic stop?
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  10. #54
    GH
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Is it against the law to get out of your vehicle during a traffic stop?
    I don't believe it is but it's still foolish. The cop's adrenalin was probably high & then he saw the firearm...

    That doesn't excuse his reaction, though.
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  11. #55
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GH View Post
    I don't believe it is but it's still foolish. The cop's adrenalin was probably high & then he saw the firearm...

    That doesn't excuse his reaction, though.
    I know it is foolish. But the point is you should not get arrested for being stupid. I really have zero tolerance for the actions of the officer. No more re training, just fire him. This was not a lapse of judgement, it is a sign of the LEO's character which will not change with more training. He is a danger to others right now.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  12. #56
    Member Array CrystalPistol's Avatar
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    The question was asked (matters not by whom or why) ....
    Is it against the law to get out of your vehicle during a traffic stop?


    Not always illegal, but then again, not always legal either. If you are on an interstate or other limited access highway which is posted "no pedestrians, .... etc" at the various access points, you should know that once you step out, you are one .... and while you'll likely never hear a LEO so state if your reason was to change a flat, summons help, help another, etc .... get out of your vehicle to take a short jog or walk over to a guard rail to take a picture or get out on him on a traffic stop and cause him any slight "excitement" and likely you will.

    It might also help to understand that when you are stopped, intrusion is slight when compared to fuil custodial arrest for a felony, it is still a seizure, even if temporary, and so you are subject to his control within bounds.

    Also, you have understand something of the mind of an officer who has doubtless gone through weeks worth of OS training, scenarios, case reviews, practicles, and some first hand accounts from survivors .... and who's maybe lost friends himself ....
    like on a "routine traffic stop" where a stolen car was not yet entered into VCIN/NCIC because it's owner never yet reported the theft seeing as his corpse is in the woods behind his house slow rotting away and he just didn't get to because he was a corpse a few minutes before the theft occurred, a car whose current posessor also has abducted a woman after also leaving another man dead in another house
    .... or ....
    like on a routine traffic stop of two males in a Camaro who inadvertandtly passed his unmarked police car at high speed and who were then stopped, two males who were wanted plumb across the state for a series of thefts but the Camaro was not their known vehicle, two males now in posession of a Ruger .44 mag .

    In the mind of such an officer, there are no "routine" stops, that "routine" part get's people killed. So even if you know that you'ld pose no threat to any officer .... keep in mind that he doesn't know you so well. He wants to go home to his family though, and what you do getting out and "forcing" the timing on the encounter is crowding his annalysis and decision process, he has less time to do it.

    He's gonna be forced to make judgements of your intent based on movements you make and actions you take.

    Maybe everything you do is "legal", but if he percieves a threat, if your innocent actions, taken as a whole from his perspective .... look like a threat, he should react (that is his training). This is why you hear it said to always keep hands in sight on the wheel or up in that area (passengers) as you and passengers remain still inside the vehicle and to not be moving around, to follow his lead.

    At the end of the day, if you get shot and are no longer of this world and he's undergoing an IA investigation .... who won? If he can articulate a threat to his life and limb or that of another, he'll be justified legally .... but he'll still likely carry it with him always. He'll always wonder in the back of his mind "why did he do it to me, why did he put me in that spot, I told him to stop ....". Your family will always wonder why he shot you, they'll likely never let themselves believe that you set a stage.

    Officers are not robots, they are just as human as you and as different as the posters on this board. Their actions will not always be the same, nor their reactions to a given situation. Every officer brings their training, God given judgement, life experiences, and lessons learned to every encounter (all of which differ). Judgement here in this world will be in light of the law and reasonableness of his/her actions, as no man will know what's in the heart of others.

    So, others will do as they will .... but this former "toad" (I had 9 traffic convictions before I setteled down) and retired trooper of 31+ years exp. .... If I ever get stopped again (I know how to greatly reduce the chances .... I read signs and obey traffic laws) .... I'lll do like I did even as a "toad" in my early years. I'll keep my hands visable and sit still until the LEO is where he/she can see me and I'll communicate (including that I'm carrying if so) and if he wants my OL and reg, I'll move slowly in getting them. I'll get out if he asks me to.

    I'm no sheep, I know enough to look at the situation from my perspective too. Is thes a real police car stopping me? Is this a real LEO approaching me? Back in the day, I knew what I was doing just prior to them lights coming on or that approach ... so the shock of seeing the lights was never a long lasting shock.
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  13. #57
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady View Post
    In SC you must inform when asked for ID.
    This deputy went overboard and needs to examine whether he is in the right line of work, and improve his vocabulary. Bad attitude also.

    100% agreement with you

  14. #58
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    Crystalpistol: "If you are on an interstate or other limited access highway which is posted "no pedestrians, .... etc" at the various access points, you should know that once you step out, you are one .... "

    Really? So what if one has a flat tire and has to change it? That hardly qualifies one as a "pedestrian."

    pe·des·tri·an (p-dstr-n)
    n.
    A person traveling on foot; a walker.

    Getting out of a vehicle does not make one "traveling on foot" unless one decides to hike back to the last exit.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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  15. #59
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    If you are on an interstate or other limited access highway which is posted "no pedestrians, .... etc" at the various access points, you should know that once you step out, you are one .
    Oh pleasse..............
    aus71383 and pittypat21 like this.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  16. #60
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    Everyone who said what the guy should have done had good points, but the fact is "should have" and "had to" are two different things. The officer had the opportunity to order the guy back into his vehicle so that really is a moot point. Law Enforcement, enforces... the law. Everyone's entitled to his opinion. Working in Law Enforcement does not empower one to shoot or confine others with a different opinion. I am unfamiliar with the law in FL, but in this
    state, a person who places another person at a position of disadvantage, is openly carrying a weapon and threatens to shoot them in the back without a valid reason (there
    certainly wasn't a valid reason here) makes a terroristic threat. This is a felony crime. That particular officer would have been a perfect person from which to make an example. He's not suitable for employment in such a field.

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