Bad encounter with a LEO

This is a discussion on Bad encounter with a LEO within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In Florida there is NO duty to inform. If this were me I`d have his Azz up on charges and my Lawyer and I would ...

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Thread: Bad encounter with a LEO

  1. #76
    Senior Member Array The Old Anglo's Avatar
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    In Florida there is NO duty to inform. If this were me I`d have his Azz up on charges and my Lawyer and I would be having a Very Nice Dinner after we cleaned the County`s clock. It would be my New retirement program.

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  3. #77
    Member Array Honk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exacto View Post
    You aren't required to inform unless asked in Virginia. But, in talking with the officers on the street and not the pencil necks that write the laws, they all say that as a professional courtesy they would like to be told. The officers on the street are the ones we deal with, not the law makers, so I inform upon initial contact, as a courtesy.
    I live in VA, and regardless of where/when I get pulled over, one of the first thing I do is tell them I have a permit, am armed, and where my weapon is carried. I grew up in a LEO family and realize that LEO's don't generally like surprises ;-)
    "Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands. " Col. Jeff Cooper

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  4. #78
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Yeah, ol Andy Cox is a first class loser in this one.. He had no right to handle that stop the way he did. Perfect example of a Barney Fife with a badge and a gun and 100% undeserving of that authority. He went from standard business stop for expired tag, to a "I'll shoot you in ..... Back!" In a split second, then try's to babble his way around his poor actions by blaming the old guy for his poor choices during the stop. IMO, both made big mistakes during the stop, but the LEO should've been more professional with his actions and therefore deserves dismissal or at a minimum proper training. I bet that's one high ho cop that would be inline for the gun confiscation order, if one was issued.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  5. #79
    Member Array bigdogtx's Avatar
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    Many years ago it was better to get out of the vehicle with hands in plain sight and not make any sudden moves and walk back to the officer's car. Don't know when this changed and not sure if it is better to walk up on a perp and get it through the door. I got out of several citations with this and this was SOP with Missouri SHP.

    Today I just stay in vehicle and when asked for license; I hand over both. This starts the dialogue and things go smoothly.

    As has been reported, this was in 2009, before the FL law was changed. Charges were dropped by the DA. Case Closed.

    Citrus County Clerk of the Circuit Court | Court Case

  6. #80
    Member Array CrystalPistol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    And I say again....Pleasse.......
    What?

    Maybe it's this part?
    Getting out by your own volition to walk back to a LEO who has stopped you under authority granted him is no emergency. Do it against his instructions to the contrary there and a simple non moving citation for being an unlawful pedestrian on the interstate is a huge break from some things he might look at.
    If so the first part will either be greeted with a "Hello" or "Please remain in your vehicle".
    If a "Hello", just continue the conversation.
    If it's "Please remain in your vehicle" .... that's when the second part starts.

    You asked.
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  7. #81
    Member Array Realleycat's Avatar
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    He should have stayed in his vehicle, and when he didn't Officer Cox should have asked him to remain in his vehicle. Officer Cox lost control of the situation and himself!
    OldVet likes this.
    Tony

  8. #82
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    If I was a cop, the last thing I want is a guy getting out of a car. The cop loses all his advantage. I would run the plates, and see who I was dealing with. Everything is dangerous, walking in a busy mall parking lot is hazerdous in Palm Beach Fl.

    When you are carrying a gun, and you are dealing with a cop - you had better have a plan in mind. In Fl you don't tell a cop you have a gun, but if you are asked to exit the vehicle - then hand him your CCW license.

  9. #83
    Member Array dean1818's Avatar
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    Always tell....... Be respectful, be polite

    The absolute vast majority of LEO are decent folks that have a tough job to do (from my observation)

    They probably have a wife, kids, and a dog they want to get home to........

    There are a few folks on here with an attitude against all LEOs....... Which is like lumping all gun owners in with the idiot from Conn........... Does that seem right?


    Can you imagine a night as an LEO, where you have seen a wife beaten, a man stabbed, and generally seen the worst of
    people?


    If we had that happen at our work daily, we might not be so jovial...... Cut the LEO some slack......
    Be a professional......

    If you are up front with an LEO, our odds to a positive encounter greatly increase........ Cop an attitude (pun intended) your odds of a negative incounter greatly increase

    My 2 times I was pulled over for CCW, i informed, and the cop was great. No ticket either time..........
    An imperfect servant of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ

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  10. #84
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dean1818 View Post
    Always tell....... Be respectful, be polite

    The absolute vast majority of LEO are decent folks that have a tough job to do (from my observation)

    They probably have a wife, kids, and a dog they want to get home to........

    There are a few folks on here with an attitude against all LEOs....... Which is like lumping all gun owners in with the idiot from Conn........... Does that seem right?


    Can you imagine a night as an LEO, where you have seen a wife beaten, a man stabbed, and generally seen the worst of people?

    If we had that happen at our work, we might not be so jovial...... Cut the LEO some slack......
    Be a professional......

    If you are up front with an LEO, our odds to a positive encounter greatly increase........ Cop an attitude (pun intended) your odds of a negative incounter greatly increase
    I guess I am a rude insensitive son of a gun because I choose to do something that is lawful by not notifying when I do not have the duty to inform.....And I guess according to you for a LEO to be fair, impartial, and courteous, it is a requirement that I inform him that I am carrying. Gotcha
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  11. #85
    Member Array dean1818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I guess I am a rude insensitive son of a gun because I choose to do something that is lawful by not notifying when I do not have the duty to inform.....And I guess according to you for a LEO to be fair, impartial, and courteous, it is a requirement that I inform him that I am carrying. Gotcha
    If I am pulled over........ I communicate it 100 percent of the time, if i am carrying.

    And.............. You are putting words in my mouth....... I cant control what the cops say or do. All I can control is what I do.


    I would add that the cop lost his mind on the stop
    Last edited by dean1818; January 23rd, 2013 at 11:54 AM.
    An imperfect servant of my Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ

    Buying American made, keeping Americans working
    ....Whenever I still can

    What non-shooter are YOU planning on taking to the range?

  12. #86
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...I have a lot of contact with police...99 1/2% pleasant...but I keep my carrying to myself unless:

    GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

    ...if he doesn't ask for my ID...I keeps my business to myself...

    ...never had a traffic stop where I wasn't asked for my ID...

    ...in the old days in LA, it was common to get out and approach the officer, hands in view, when stopped...
    when I got to TX in 84, that had become a No-No...here they expect/demand that we wait in car as they approach us...I feel that's more dangerous for the officer but it's their playground...I do keep my hands in view and smile...

  13. #87
    Member Array Realleycat's Avatar
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    Well the story finally broke in our local paper. It is on the Tampa news also. Now we'll see what happens??
    Tony

  14. #88
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dean1818 View Post
    Always tell....... Be respectful, be polite.
    Not me... Most LEOs do things strictly by the book, and for me, I do the same. If asked, it's a yes officer, then follow whatever instructions given; other than that, I offer only direct answers to direct questions. After all, this isn't a social visit by one of my friends. While I agree that most all LEOs are friendly and just like you or I, at least the ones I've interacted with. There are those like the clown in the video that would have no problem upsetting your tranquil world.

    I already commented as to how I believe the guy should not have gotten outta his van, but the language and hostility towards the guy by the officer (and I use that term loosely) was uncalled for. He threatened the guys life repeatedly, which in my book disqualifies him from any level of respect I would normally have for the badge/position. It's also my opinion that he should be fired immediately. He doesn't even deserve a reprimand. He simply doesn't have a right to carry that firearm under the guise of a Law Enforcement officer. They don't have to "Serve and Protect", but they darn sure don't have the right to make terrorist threats towards individuals who are following the instructions as they are given. I hope you're not taking this post personally as that's not my intent, just wanted to chime in on the whole "inform" thing..
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  15. #89
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    Part of the now almost universal requirement to remain in the vehicle is for officer safety, part is for driver safety. The last thing an LEO needs is some drunk getting out and wandering into traffic. Working roadside is hazardous enough without the driver adding to it.

    As a resident of a "non" inform state, should I be pulled over I probably would not inform unless asked to step out, for what ever reason, and then I would inform prior to doing so. Outside of FL, rather than trying to memorize what states are "must inform" or not, I'd make it simple and inform on official contact. In the meantime, I'll continue checking my vehicle lights from time to time and avoid being obviously deserving of a traffic stop.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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  16. #90
    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...being a former training officer, I agree...we deserve better than this...and he's a lawsuit waiting to happen...no excuses...he needs to go...
    ...the duty to inform is upon demand...and the offense is a non-arrest $25 fine if you don't...

    ...from the law" 790.01. The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court."

    ...as to the accidental display, the law couldn't be more clear:

    "790.053 Open carrying of weapons.—
    (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense."


    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    Not me... Most LEOs do things strictly by the book, and for me, I do the same. If asked, it's a yes officer, then follow whatever instructions given; other than that, I offer only direct answers to direct questions. After all, this isn't a social visit by one of my friends. While I agree that most all LEOs are friendly and just like you or I, at least the ones I've interacted with. There are those like the clown in the video that would have no problem upsetting your tranquil world.

    I already commented as to how I believe the guy should not have gotten outta his van, but the language and hostility towards the guy by the officer (and I use that term loosely) was uncalled for. He threatened the guys life repeatedly, which in my book disqualifies him from any level of respect I would normally have for the badge/position. It's also my opinion that he should be fired immediately. He doesn't even deserve a reprimand. He simply doesn't have a right to carry that firearm under the guise of a Law Enforcement officer. They don't have to "Serve and Protect", but they darn sure don't have the right to make terrorist threats towards individuals who are following the instructions as they are given. I hope you're not taking this post personally as that's not my intent, just wanted to chime in on the whole "inform" thing..
    gottabkiddin likes this.

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