Permit To Carry--Is A Training Requirement Good?

This is a discussion on Permit To Carry--Is A Training Requirement Good? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In PA (or at least in Allegheny County) you are given a brochure that recommends that you attend Firearms Safety Classes. It also includes instructions ...

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Thread: Permit To Carry--Is A Training Requirement Good?

  1. #16
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    In PA (or at least in Allegheny County) you are given a brochure that recommends that you attend Firearms Safety Classes. It also includes instructions for proper safe firearm storage and some other helpful info.
    It's possible to get basic instruction at most available shooting ranges.
    It seems to work.
    I am a strong believer in personal responsibility.
    I believe that most good people will do the right "common sense" thing (on their own) and do what is necessary to educate themselves. Of course some never will.
    I see the value in folks getting at least some basic gun education but, the thought of having it mandated scares me a bit.
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  3. #17
    Member Array steve63's Avatar
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    I believe that the states that mandate a class are doing it for liability reasons. Once you leave the class and then act stupid, they can't say, well nobody gave me any training. I've nver held a gun before. It keeps the states from getting sued. My opinion.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I am a strong believer in personal responsibility.
    I believe that most good people will do the right "common sense" thing (on their own) and do what is necessary to educate themselves. Of course some never will.
    I see the value in folks getting at least some basic gun education but, the thought of having it mandated scares me a bit.
    This sums up my feelings on the subject very nicely.

    I think that it's tautological: those who want the knowledge will go out to get the knowledge. Anyone who doesn't do it on their own... the knowledge will probably never take with them in the first place. You can't force knowledge on the unwilling, really.

    And besides, as a subset of the population, we do pretty okay as it is.

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peacefuljeffrey View Post
    The big mistake I see being made here is people believing that taking and passing a training class means that the licensee will not go right out and be stupid and careless!
    Can't imagine who truly believes that. Lawyers would certainly twist it to appear as such. Wouldn't make it true, of course.

    Ahhhh, the "magic" seminar that wards off all evil, imparts wondrous skills and ninja abilities on the innocent, and acts like Moses to part the bad guys in the public "sea." Some might well feel a little bit of knowledge can do that. Such folks will likely cause damage, or get killed by the first serious perp in line. Either way, their personal responsibility (or lack of it) will take care of things fairly quickly. Not much different than anyone else, actually. To each by degree of one's personal responsibility. A life truth. Call it the "merit system," of sorts.
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  6. #20
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    I do think that CCW holder should have advanced education on the issue at hand, yes. The question as to how much is something that will be open for discussion for years to come.
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  7. #21
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    In FL we can show proficiency by military training, membership in a shooting program such as IPSC, IDPA, etc or by attending a class. Considering some of the antics I've seen at ranges I'd like to see some sort of basic proof of firearms knowledge as well as understanding of the legal aspects for a permit. People doing dumd things can cause considerable damage to our side of the issue.

    As for basic legal knowledge I'm amazed how many ccw'ers don't fully understand the laws in their own state! Again, potentially serious ammo for the anti crowd.

    That, unfortunately, has to be balanced against the govts ability to muck up a free lunch and create more mindless beurocracy. No complete easy answers I'm afraid.
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Regulating rights is bad imo. It's great that people get the training, but let's be honest, did any of us really learn any kind of firearms safety from our CCW courses? We learned legalities and that's it.

  9. #23
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    My concerns with a training "requirement" are:
    - Is it cost prohibitive to the person who desires a CCW/CWP, etc?
    - 1st time shooter vs a veteran shooter
    - KISS--no 25yd quals....can you safely handle a firearm and hit a target within 7yds (or less)--the avg distance of an encounter.
    - Review of state/local laws governing self defense--not opinion on self-defense.

  10. #24
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    QK has very adequately covered our situation in PA - and indeed, problems from that would seem minimal.

    By contrast if we look at the other end of the spectrum - we see states with horrendous costly courses mandated. Some of those seem so excessive as to almost be there as deterants to folks getting/wanting a CCW.

    I think mandatory is bad - but would still say I would like for new shooters to themselves seek some form of training, to enable them to be safer and more proficient - as QK says - personal responsibility.
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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    My other issue is the "background check"--VA resident permit costs $50 (5 yr permit), but a PA permit costs $20....anyone?

  12. #26
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    Not quite sure which angle your question addresses re background check.

    For me in my county - the check is AFAIK made from the SO just the same as a gun shop would when buying a gun. Ours 5yr valid too.

    Cost now is $26 BTW. They have moved to a DL type card.
    Chris - P95
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  13. #27
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    IMHO once you accept that your 2nd ammendment rights can be regulated ( we all have by getting our ccw PERMIT or LICENCE ) by the gvt. It is not unreasonable for the gvt to require reasonable training in deadly force laws , safe gun handleing , and make us demonstrate profeciancy by testing and qualification . This will also tend to keep the squirrells out , and make us look better as a group of gunowners . On the other hand , i would like to see a similar program for journalists ... just to keep our rights on equil footing ya know LOL
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  14. #28
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    Just another thing that I though of. The county in NY where I am now offers a free safety course to anyone in the county for any reason. You can take it as many times as you would like. There is no training requirement here though.

  15. #29
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    I have no problem with the way that Texas does their's. It is a whole day of classroom instruction on the state laws and statues followed by a test and a proficiency test in your weapon. It is not cheap either the whole process is going to cost you about $250, and will take a couple of months from start to finish.

    I have had instructors say that people have shown up with a .454 casull or other guns that were too powerful for them and try to qualify with the weapon when they never shot it before. Since the test is a series of 50 shots to qualify, these folks didn't get to finish their test, they were kindly asked to give up their weapon and sit and watch the rest of the class finish theirs.

    The way I look at it, if they are dumb enough to show up with at weapon that they can't shoot, or can't pass a test on the laws of the state, I really don't want them running around with a loaded gun.

    That is my personal feeling, and many of you have different ones, but we all have limits. Whether it be because of mental illness, past criminal history, whatever. Mine just happens to go all the way to dumba.... shouldn't get to carry one either.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  16. #30
    Senior Member Array cmidkiff's Avatar
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    Carrying a firearm without proper training is stupid.

    Laws banning stupidity are even more so.

    Requiring a 'permit' for a citizen of this great nation in order to exercise their rights, by definition, infringes on those rights.

    How about requiring a demonstration of proper punctuation and grammer from anyone wishing to author an article in the press... or required sensitivity training before being allowed to exercise your right to protest? Which other rights are you willing to allow government to license and mandate arbitrary qualifications for?

    Funny how the two states that allow CCW as our founding fathers intended don't seem to have a higher percentage of firearm deaths due to lack of training than any other state does.

    I cringe every time I see this subject come up. You're stating to those that would deny you your rights that a certain amount of infringement is just fine with you. You're framing the argument in their terms. It then becomes 'how much' infringement is OK, rather than 'Shall not be infringed'.
    Liberty is an inherently offensive lifestyle. Living in a free society guarantees that each one of us will see our most cherished principles and beliefs questioned and in some cases mocked. It's worth it.

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