So I thought I was just being paranoid... - Page 2

So I thought I was just being paranoid...

This is a discussion on So I thought I was just being paranoid... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Okay, here we go: So say the guy reached into the pocket again, your dad slugs him and knocks him to the ground, you leap ...

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  1. #16
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    Okay, here we go:

    So say the guy reached into the pocket again, your dad slugs him and knocks him to the ground, you leap into action to assist your dad, the store clerk sees a scuffle in the parking lot and calls 911, the cops come and find nothing on the guy but a half-empty pack of cigs--in his pocket.

    Who is posing the threat of death or serious bodily harm? The guy looking for a handout to buy that 3-day-old corndog in the convenience store grill--or the two ruffians who beat the crap out of an unarmed man?

    Other than misusing the word "confronted" nothing in your post mentions any erratic or aggressive behavior.

    Just another point of view that the "reasonable person" on a jury may take.
    Last edited by OldVet; January 27th, 2013 at 11:23 AM.
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    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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  2. #17
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    Create distance or get out and help change the guys thought as to how everything will go down may have helped to warn him. Maybe in the future , if you see someone like this per warn you father ? Make a plan to put the beggar at a disadvantage?
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  3. #18
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    So I thought I was just being paranoid...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    "Specifically, how were you prepared to act if the panhandler suddenly pulled a weapon and turned it into a robbery?"

    Yes, I was armed and when the man started to look suspicious and was fooling with his pockets and belt, I pulled my cover garment back and slid forward in my seat to be sure to get a clear view of the man. I kept my hand firmly on the grip of my pistol, ready to draw. My father was not armed, but always carries a pocket knife, which he pulled out with his change.


    Were either you or your father armed?

    answered above

    If you were armed, did you have your hand on your gun, ready to draw? Did you have your gun unholstered and in your hand? (I'm speculating that you did not, or you would have probably mentioned it in your post).

    you are correct. I did not draw my gun, but I did have my gun exposed (not that the man could see it, just everything out of the way for a fast draw) and was ready and very alert for anything that would have caused me to take action.

    Would you have had a clear shot at the potential attacker from your position inside the truck without endangering your father? Or others behind the guy?

    when we came out of the gas station, the cars parked around us had moved, so there was no one behind the man. When I slid forward to the front of my seat, I had a very clear view of the man and what at the time seemed to be comfortable space to not endanger my father. I guess if I could have done so without alerting the man and causing him to act, a shot would have been a little more clear if I exited the truck and took aim over the bedside. But this was a short interaction, maybe 20-30 seconds. So I think my position inside the truck would have been ample, had anything escalated.

    Would it have been better if you exited the truck and take up a better position of advantage?Or did it all happen too quickly to have formulated a response?

    answered above

    Again, it's good to have supurb situational awareness... But if you're not thinking tactically, and ready to respond on a moments notice, it could get real ugly.

    Also, what exactly did you take away from the situation?

    a big sigh of relief when the man walked away and I wasn't forced to draw my gun. Things could have been much worse but I now feel much more secure knowing that I am legally armed for such situations. And although I pray I'll never need to use such force or even draw my pistol, knowing I have the means of self defense strapped to my side at all times gives me a comforting feeling.

    Don't think I'm putting you on the "hot seat" and grilling you. These are questions people on this forum want to know. They want to know your thought process and how it affects your response to given situations.

    We have many people here who are new to guns, new to ccw, and have little or no experience in "thinking tactically," and how to progress through similar situations they may find themselves in. Many of the new people here don't even know what they should be thinking about when their "radar" goes off.
    I don't mind the questions at all. They were all very appropriate to the situation. I do apologize for not stating that I was armed. Not sure quite how I left that out
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Okay, here we go:

    So say the guy reached into the pocket again, your dad slugs him and knocks him to the ground, you leap into action to assist your dad, the store clerk sees a scuffle in the parking lot and calls 911, the cops come and find nothing on the guy but a half-empty pack of cigs--in his pocket.

    Who is posing the threat of death or serious bodily harm? The guy looking for a handout--or the two ruffians who beat the crap out of an unarmed man?

    Other than misusing the word "confronted" nothing in your post mentions any erratic or aggressive behavior.

    Just another point of view that the "reasonable person" on a jury may take.
    You make an excellent and important observation. Which brings us to ccw9mm's post in which he points out, you can't let people walk up to you and get into your space. When they are at "bad breath" distance, you are hard pressed to respond if they suddenly turn into a threat.

    Space and distance are our friends and often one of the only things we have on our side when we evaluate things. As lawabiding citizens, we must wait until either a visible weapon is produced, or a verbal threat is made coupled with behavior which makes that threat believable before we can respond with force. Otherwise, you're guilty of assault and battery for striking an unarmed citizen.

    Having the space to increase your reaction time is critical. Otherwise, your either trying to play catch-up and are way behind the curve, or you act prematurely and then you're the aggressor and the assailant.
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  5. #20
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    So I thought I was just being paranoid...

    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    How close was he? Would it have been better to verbally engage him and telling him to back away from the vehicle from a safe distance and then when he inevitably tried approaching you telling him to stop? Perhaps even say, "Excuse, me, can I help you" from a distance.

    You still need to size up the situation and respond accordingly. Peoples desire to not be rude or mean will get them in trouble, but so can "dis'n" the wrong person too.
    That's true. And maybe I should have told him to stop. The man was within arms reach of the grill of the truck and when he started to my side of the truck, I entered to truck to avoid the confrontation. I had a strong feeling he was going to ask for money, and sometimes I prefer to just ignore the question than to tell them no. At my old job in Huntington there was a man who walked the alleys with a shopping cart that got quite hostile when you told him you couldn't/wouldn't help him out. Keeping about your business and avoiding the question got no ill response from the man.

  6. #21
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    So I thought I was just being paranoid...

    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    As soon as you got in the truck, crank her up, put her in gear, and leave the guy standing there. I've done it. You are in a 6,000 lb vehicle, get it moving and keep going (this is assuming your Dad was already in the truck).
    This was what I expected my father to do. Just get away from the guy. But once my dad heard the question, he got all kind hearted on me. He was in the truck with the door closed and the window down ~6". My dad was not armed but short of a gun, the other man would have had to break the glass to get to my dad.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00z28 View Post
    This was what I expected my father to do. Just get away from the guy. But once my dad heard the question, he got all kind hearted on me. He was in the truck with the door closed and the window down ~6". My dad was not armed but short of a gun, the other man would have had to break the glass to get to my dad.
    Sorry, I was under the impression your dad was still outside the truck. My error. Yeah, in that case, it's much easier to just drive off. (In most cases).

    Still, this is a very good scenario for people to learn from.

    Also glad you were armed and cleared your cover garment to get to your gun quickly.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #23
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    So I thought I was just being paranoid...

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Retain barriers between them;
    This is why my father and I entered the truck. A locked door gives us a slight barrier and in my opinion a little time, if things were to go south. And he were to try and break the glass

  9. #24
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    So I thought I was just being paranoid...

    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Okay, here we go:

    So say the guy reached into the pocket again, your dad slugs him and knocks him to the ground, you leap into action to assist your dad, the store clerk sees a scuffle in the parking lot and calls 911, the cops come and find nothing on the guy but a half-empty pack of cigs--in his pocket.

    Who is posing the threat of death or serious bodily harm? The guy looking for a handout to buy that 3-day-old corndog in the convenience store grill--or the two ruffians who beat the crap out of an unarmed man?

    Other than misusing the word "confronted" nothing in your post mentions any erratic or aggressive behavior.

    Just another point of view that the "reasonable person" on a jury may take.
    However, nothing in my post said that any of your proposed situation happened. Neither my father or myself acted upon the man reaching behind his back. I merely got myself ready to take action if his hand wasn't empty when it came forward. If you're taking my father's quote as if he would have literally taken action two seconds later, then I apologize. You do not know my dad. To clarify, that was my father telling me that he had his eye on the guy and that he was ready to act if he did something stupid.

  10. #25
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    So I thought I was just being paranoid...

    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    Create distance or get out and help change the guys thought as to how everything will go down may have helped to warn him. Maybe in the future , if you see someone like this per warn you father ? Make a plan to put the beggar at a disadvantage?
    Good advice. Thank you. Had he tried roger our attention before we got to the truck, I would have certainly stayed outside to make sure the situation cleared. I'll discuss things with my father today

  11. #26
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    Great post. I have learned more on this site than I did at my CCW class.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n
    Don't think I'm putting you on the "hot seat" and grilling you. These are questions people on this forum want to know. They want to know your thought process and how it affects your response to given situations.

    We have many people here who are new to guns, new to ccw, and have little or no experience in "thinking tactically," and how to progress through similar situations they may find themselves in. Many of the new people here don't even know what they should be thinking about when their "radar" goes off.
    Last edited by Bark'n; January 27th, 2013 at 04:09 PM. Reason: fixed the "quote" code
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  12. #27
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    Better to be paranoid and prepared then to be a victim. To be well aware of your surroundings is not being paranoid, it is being prepared for the "what ifs". When entering any mall or public place after just a few seconds I have picked out the possible safe defense places and the best possible escape routes. Am I paranoid? No, just being prepared for the "what ifs" such as the movie theater shootings. Most people were shot trying to flee when it would have been better to lay on the floor and be shielded from sight by the seats. Not being the target of opportunity is my primary objective.
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  13. #28
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    If it were my father I would have been out of the truck and right behind the guy. This family sticks together, come what may.

    Jim
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  14. #29
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    I think part of the problem here is that we tend to give people rights, such as 'the right to panhandle', 'the right to approach' and they don't actually have such rights.

    I think you waited much too long to disengage, perhaps you wanted to see how you'd react, if you could react quickly, IDK. I think that if he had pulled a gun he'd have shot your dad before you could react.

    I'd suggest in the future you do not stand there and engage panhandlers. You owe them nothing. It's OK to be rude, OK to drive away.

  15. #30
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    So I thought I was just being paranoid...

    Quote Originally Posted by GentlemanJim View Post
    If it were my father I would have been out of the truck and right behind the guy. This family sticks together, come what may.

    Jim
    With all due respect, I was 2 feet from my father with enough room to defend him if need be.

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