Is THIS Enforceable???? - Page 2

Is THIS Enforceable????

This is a discussion on Is THIS Enforceable???? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by rigel42 There is nothing to enforce, this is not a choice of the owner. If you carry a unlicensed gun into a ...

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Thread: Is THIS Enforceable????

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigel42 View Post
    There is nothing to enforce, this is not a choice of the owner. If you carry a unlicensed gun into a restaurant that serves alcohol in Texas you are committing a felony, period. 30.06 signs are for CHL holders who are licensed to carry into (non-51%) establishments.
    If you are carrying a firearm without a license anywhere in Texas you are committing a felony...

    However, the intent of the sign is to prevent any/all guns on the premises....which they can't do with that sign, since it doesn't meet the requirements:

    30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED
    HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
    holder:
    (1) carries a handgun under the authority of
    Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another
    without effective consent; and
    (2) received notice that:
    (A) entry on the property by a license holder
    with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
    (B) remaining on the property with a concealed
    handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
    (b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice
    if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to
    act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written
    communication.
    (c) In this section:
    (1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section
    30.05(b).
    (2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by
    Section 46.035(f).
    (3) "Written communication" means:
    (A) a card or other document on which is written
    language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06,
    Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed
    handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411,
    Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this
    property with a concealed handgun"; or
    (B) a sign posted on the property that:
    (i) includes the language described by
    Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
    (ii) appears in contrasting colors with
    block letters at least one inch in height; and
    (iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner
    clearly visible to the public.

    (d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
    (e) It is an exception to the application of this section
    that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is
    owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or
    other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying
    the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    If you are carrying a firearm without a license anywhere in Texas you are committing a felony...

    However, the intent of the sign is to prevent any/all guns on the premises....which they can't do with that sign, since it doesn't meet the requirements:
    You and I must be reading different signs. Ohio liquor establishments are required, by law to post a very similar sign, conspicuously.
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  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Grant48's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    However, the intent of the sign is to prevent any/all guns on the premises....which they can't do with that sign, since it doesn't meet the requirements:
    Who's intent are you referring to? The business owner has no choice on the matter, TABC regulations require the "unlicensed possession" sign at all establishments that sell and/or serve alcoholic beverages. The "unlicensed possession" sign is no reflection on the business owner's intent, as the sign is state mandated.

    One of my best friends owns a restaurant, and they are required to post this sign, despite being very concealed carry friendly.
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  4. #19
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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    You and I must be reading different signs. Ohio liquor establishments are required, by law to post a very similar sign, conspicuously.
    See the OP...he is referring specifically to Texas. Thus, I posted the referring Texas code that addresses signage. If it doesn't meet the requirements of the law (in Texas), it is unenforceable (in Texas).
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    It doesn't meet the requirements spelled out in 30.06...thus, not enforceable
    Has nothing to do with the 30.06. Different set of laws for different purposes.

    What is so hard to understand about the words "UNLICENSED POSSESSION."

    If you have a CHL you can ignore that particular sign. If you don't have a CHL you are illegal anyway as the gun is in your possession and you are not in your home or car or transiting from the one to the other.

    The sign is nothing more than a statement warning law breakers that breaking the law in a place that serves or sells
    alcohol carries a much stiffer penalty than breaking the same law anywhere else.
    Last edited by Hopyard; January 27th, 2013 at 09:03 PM. Reason: grammar, word order change
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    See the OP...he is referring specifically to Texas. Thus, I posted the referring Texas code that addresses signage. If it doesn't meet the requirements of the law (in Texas), it is unenforceable (in Texas).
    Which part of "unlicensed carry" are you failing to grasp?
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  8. #23
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Which part of "unlicensed carry" are you failing to grasp?
    The part where unlicensed carry anywhere is a felony. In other words, the signs language is redundant. Kind of like "Coffee is hot...do not spill"
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    The part where unlicensed carry anywhere is a felony. In other words, the signs language is redundant. Kind of like "Coffee is hot...do not spill"
    Welcome to the world of mandatory Government regulations

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    The part where unlicensed carry anywhere is a felony. In other words, the signs language is redundant. Kind of like "Coffee is hot...do not spill"
    We have gone from "unenforceable" to "redundant". I'll call that a move toward accuracy.
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  11. #26
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    No problem - just don't eat there.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    The part where unlicensed carry anywhere is a felony. In other words, the signs language is redundant. Kind of like "Coffee is hot...do not spill"
    PC 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun

    (b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
    (c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

    Hence the warning sign, so some dufus who will take his chances on a misdemeanor conviction won't be able
    to cry that he wasn't warned he was committing a felony when he entered a place where there is the sale of alcoholic
    beverages.

    None of this has a thing to do with 30.06 and the sign language makes plain it applies to UNLICENSED carry,
    which is a crime anyway.
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  13. #28
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    Read it again and think about what it says

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurgerBoy View Post
    No problem - just don't eat there.
    I must be missing something. The way I interpret it, the only way that sign could be more gun friendly would be if it said LICENSED WEAPONS CARRIERS WELCOME HERE!
    Hopyard likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CigarStix View Post
    This is posted at a local restaurant in Texas. I don't believe this is enforceable.
    Yes, it's enforcable. However, it does not pertain to you, a legal CHL holder. Read the text, it says the "unlicensed possession". You are licensed. These signs are normal at alcohol stores. Should have been covered in your CHL class :)

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