Cocked & Locked Carry (Safety Concerns) - Page 4

Cocked & Locked Carry (Safety Concerns)

This is a discussion on Cocked & Locked Carry (Safety Concerns) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by HYDRO Unless a person is combat experienced they should never carry a 1911 frame gun COCKED, with or without the safety on. ...

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Thread: Cocked & Locked Carry (Safety Concerns)

  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HYDRO View Post
    Unless a person is combat experienced they should never carry a 1911 frame gun COCKED, with or without the safety on. Inexperienced shooters, (combat inexperienced) will be nervous, and up on adrenalin, won't have time for or be very able to locate the safety, and have the gun IN BATTERY in 2-4 seconds. Much longer and you are probably dead anyway, gun goes off prematurely or can't get the safety off, your dead. For me, no safety and first click, hammer off the pin.
    So you're saying no one can carry a 1911 unless they fired one in Grenada, the last US combat action using the 1911, or earlier?

    You say you carried a Gov. issue 1911 40 yrs ago with the hammer down on a loaded chamber? THAT is unsafe. They didn't even have FPB then.

    OP- read the sound holster draw advice from the two posts above (by Otis2 and wondering). Palm out draw will cause the muzzle to sweep your body. You should seriously consider a right handed holster. It's made that way for a reason. I didn't buy into the small of the back draw with palm in, at first. I thought I needed to draw palm out. Turns out, the palm in draw gives you a more positive grip (don't have to search for room for your fingers between the grip and your body), and "palm in" avoids sweeping your body with the muzzle.


  2. #47
    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    I use a 1911 as my EDC.

    The thumb safety only engages when the hammer is cocked, and therefore, is only useful in condition one. Whether JMB originally designed the firearm with the safety or not is of no consequence, given this fact. If you don't carry condition one, you might as well remove your thumb safety.
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

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  3. #48
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    This is true. His original design for what is now the 1911 did not have the grip safety back in 1910.

    The US Calvary requested the redesign to include the grip safety because while mounted on horseback, during combat, they believed there was a possibility for negligent discharges if the trooper did not have a solid grip on the gun while being jostled around on horseback. Browning added the grip safety for that reason, but felt it was unneeded.

    In 1922 FN produced the John Browning designed .32 acp pistol, also without a grip safety. Browning also designed the .32 acp cartridge to go with it.

    His next great pistol design the P35, produced in 1935 and affectionately known as the Browning Hi-Power is also without a grip safety.
    The 1910 did have a grip safety, the evolution of the 1911 included a grip safety from the Model 1907 U.S. Military onward.

    Colt Model 1907 U.S. Military Trials .45 ACP - Rimless Smokeless

    Photo courtesy of Sam Lisker

    Colt Model 1909 .45 ACP - Rimless Smokeless

    Photo courtesy of Sam Lisker

    Colt Model 1910 .45 ACP - Serial Number 5

    Photo courtesy of Scott Gahimer

    Colt Model 1910 .45 ACP - Serial Number 6 with the requested thumb safety

    Photo courtesy of Scott Gahimer

    Colt Model 1911 .45 ACP - Serial Number 1


    Vicki Gahimer's 1912 made M1911 in near mint condition
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  4. #49
    OD*
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    I am as big a fan of JMB as anybody, but, Dieudonné Saive deserves almost all the credit for the Hi-Power as we know it today. Browning died in 1926, Dieudonné Saive improved upon the design until it's release in 1935, nearly 9 years after the Master's death.

    This is the last prototype of the Hi-Power JMB personally worked on.
    Bark'n likes this.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    Holy Moly OD!!!! That just made my day. So awesome. Know where those pistols are located (I assume a museum)?
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Yep, that's true. But nobody I know has a Saive tattoo. JMB's legacy is still on the shoulder, in the holster, on the pintle mount & deep in the hearts of shooters...worldwide. Nobody but you & me (and a few Frenchman) even know who Dieudonne' Saive is.

    To the OP, carrying SA autoloading handguns in "Condition One" is accepted & encouraged by the most experienced, most effective, most-at-risk LEOs & elite military advisors in the world. If anyone still wants to argue, go butt heads with the MCSOCOM & let us know how that works out for 'ya.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  7. #52
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    Off topic but related question... where did the Browning Deer logo come from?

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    Off topic but related question... where did the Browning Deer logo come from?
    The Corporate Graphic Design Department. I don't think JMB had much to do with it (past the...prototype)
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  9. #54
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon10125 View Post
    Holy Moly OD!!!! That just made my day. So awesome. Know where those pistols are located (I assume a museum)?
    The Colt M1911 serial number 1 is at the Connecticut State Library along with most all of Colt's collection, and many on loan from private collectors. The two 1910s are located at the Woolaroc Museum Collection, Tulsa, Oklahoma. The others are in the private collections of Scott Gahimer and Sam Lisker. . A Pilgrimage to Hartford .
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  10. #55
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by carracer View Post
    Off topic but related question... where did the Browning Deer logo come from?
    Celebrating 30 Years of the Browning Buckmark Logo. - Browning Article
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    The Colt M1911 serial number 1 is at the Connecticut State Library along with most all of Colt's collection, and many on loan from private collectors. The two 1910s are located at the Woolaroc Museum Collection, Tulsa, Oklahoma. The others are in the private collections of Scott Gahimer and Sam Lisker. . A Pilgrimage to Hartford .
    Thank you.

    My next guess was your safe
    BigJon


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  12. #57
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon10125 View Post
    Thank you.

    My next guess was your safe
    You're quite welcome, and I wish your second guess were true.

    I know Scott & Vicki Gahimer personally and have seen some of their M1911/M1911A1 collection (including Scott's two Singer 1911A1s), it's amazing if you're into firearms history.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  13. #58
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    ...yup...the 1910 did...the Army's request was made after the 1906 trials...which were done with the original 1905...which had no grip safety: The National Firearms Museum: Colt Model 1905 45 Automatic Pistol that's why he added it...

    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    The 1910 did have a grip safety, the evolution of the 1911 included a grip safety from the Model 1907 U.S. Military onward.

    Colt Model 1907 U.S. Military Trials .45 ACP - Rimless Smokeless

    Photo courtesy of Sam Lisker

    Colt Model 1909 .45 ACP - Rimless Smokeless

    Photo courtesy of Sam Lisker

    Colt Model 1910 .45 ACP - Serial Number 5

    Photo courtesy of Scott Gahimer

    Colt Model 1910 .45 ACP - Serial Number 6 with the requested thumb safety

    Photo courtesy of Scott Gahimer

    Colt Model 1911 .45 ACP - Serial Number 1


    Vicki Gahimer's 1912 made M1911 in near mint condition

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    That's the best reason I've ever heard for re-visiting Tulsa! Thanks OD!
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  15. #60
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...yup...the 1910 did...the Army's request was made after the 1906 trials...which were done with the original 1905...which had no grip safety: The National Firearms Museum: Colt Model 1905 45 Automatic Pistol that's why he added it...
    Yes sir, I am aware of that, what I was replying to was the comment that was made about the M1910 not having a grip safety.
    His original design for what is now the 1911 did not have the grip safety back in 1910.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

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