Expand LEOSA to active duty/retired military? - Page 5

Expand LEOSA to active duty/retired military?

This is a discussion on Expand LEOSA to active duty/retired military? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by chuckusaret I goggled LEOSA 2012 and read the entire required qualifications that had to be met and I found one, dated 2 ...

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 113
Like Tree66Likes

Thread: Expand LEOSA to active duty/retired military?

  1. #61
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hiding inside a bottle of Jim Beam Black.
    Posts
    17,288
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckusaret View Post
    I goggled LEOSA 2012 and read the entire required qualifications that had to be met and I found one, dated 2 Jan. 2013, that does appear to allow ex military policemen to qualify:


    have statutory powers of arrest or to "apprehend" for violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (as of 2 January 2013)
    Unless my memory fails me (and it often does these days), all members of the service have the authority to "apprehend" violators of the UCMJ.
    bigmacque likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield


  2. #62
    Senior Member Array DocT65's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Gulf Coast
    Posts
    596
    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    The only reason there are not a lot of ND's in the military is becasue the are too anal about gun safety.
    What?!?! No such thing as being "too anal about gun safety". Respectfully, I submit you could not find any reputatable LE, firearms group or other such folks that would support that assertion.
    "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

    Flight Surgeon, USAF
    Law Enforcement Tactical Surgeon

    NRA Patron Member

  3. #63
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    9,360
    Perhaps the point of LEOSA was missed to an extent. As a Safety Act, it is because over the course of a career, LEO's make alot of enemies, that don't go away when you retire. It's hard to imagine the Taliban trying to hunt down a service member after the combat action of the member is completed.

    Not to take away from the service of armed forces members, as I am one myself.

    The purpose of having qualified armed personel carrying concealed to maybe be at the right place at the right time to stop criminal, and/or acts of terrorism was a secondary consideration of the bill.

    Furthermore, and I think relevant to this discussion is the fact that retired LEO's must annually recertify with their firearms with their agency, or a agency that allows retirees outside their jurisdiction to requalify to keep their credentials under LEOSA.
    KBSR, Hopyard and Secret Spuk like this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  4. #64
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,968
    Quote Originally Posted by DocT65 View Post
    What?!?! No such thing as being "too anal about gun safety". Respectfully, I submit you could find any reputatable LE, firearms group or other such folks that would support that assertion.
    To clarify: when you go to qualify they don't trust you with your ammo and your gun. Normally you put the gun down and go back and get your ammo or have your coach go get it. The amount of range rules is too the point where it is next to impossible to have an accident. In fact, they take away any responsibility from the individual and place it on the range cadre for safety.

    The point is they take away the personal responisbility for safety. As a gun owner you do not have reange cadre walking around with you to ensure you do not screw up. The rules have been like that forever because of the vast amount of folks that go into the military you wuld have plenty of AD's if it were not so structured. The rationale that military is trained on safety is correct, but the emphasis is on group safety...not individual.

    I have seen ex military at the range and in abscence of an RSO they are just like the rest of the population...you have some knuckleheads while the vast majority or just fine.

    You have to admit it is hard to have an ND if you do not have your ammo and gun at the same time except when you are about ready to fire. It real life as a CC'er you are responsible for a loaded and chambered gun while you are out in the public. That is a far cry from having an RSO walking behind you.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  5. #65
    Senior Member Array DocT65's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Gulf Coast
    Posts
    596
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckusaret View Post
    I have observed the quarterly LEO range training for several departments in my area and it amounts to nothing more then expending two boxes of ammo in the least amount of time possible for most officers. There are some exceptions, but very few.
    While I can't speak for any agency but our metro, our qualification process is anything but what you describe. There is a prescribed course (mandated by the state peace officer's commission) that must be successfully completed by each LEO. Those who do not pass are placed on administrative duty and receive remedial training. If they fail a third time, they are dismissed and lose their LEO status. If agencies in your area do as you say, it should be investigated by the group that regulates and certifies the LEO's in your state.
    "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

    Flight Surgeon, USAF
    Law Enforcement Tactical Surgeon

    NRA Patron Member

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,968
    Too add to my last post: The military has to be anal about safety and I was not saying they should not. In fact they have to becasue a lot of folks in the military touch a gun once or twice a year so they are not use to using it. Why do you have to have PMI before the range? It is to make sure folks know the safety rules, do's and don'ts, and how to fire their primary weapon. If the folks are so well trainined in weapons and weapon safety you would think you would not have to review everytime you go to the range.

    Tha is not a good reason to say military should have the same excemptions as LEO's.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  7. #67
    Senior Member
    Array FlaRon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Florida Treasure Coast
    Posts
    836

    Cool

    Military with law enforcement training such as USCG drug interdiction might qualify however the minimum amount of time for a retired sworn LEO to be on active duty to qualify for HR-218 is 10 years.

    I believe if this was to be considered an entirely new bill would have to be crafted for military personnel separate and apart from the LEOSA of 2004.

    To all our men and women in the military current and past thank you for your service to our country.

    Image.jpg

    Regards,

    FlaRon
    II Timothy 1:7 God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind.

    "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it is the answer it is the only answer". T. Larkin

  8. #68
    Member Array gwgw60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    N. Virginia/Wasington DC
    Posts
    55

    Expand LEOSA to active duty/retired military?

    Any citizen that passes the same qualification test that retired LEOs pass should have the same right to carry as do retired officers.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Gulf Coast, MS
    Posts
    653
    Quote Originally Posted by gwgw60 View Post
    Any citizen that passes the same qualification test that retired LEOs pass should have the same right to carry as do retired officers.
    Under the 2nd Amendment I'd agree with this statement. But unless you are a retired law enforcement officer, you don't qualify. It took years and years, and a lot of work to get LEOSA passed into law. If you want the same thing, do the work to get your law passed, or put your ten years in to qualify as a LEO.
    " But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... Baa." Col. Dave Grossman on Sheep and Sheepdogs.

  10. #70
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,968
    Quote Originally Posted by KBSR View Post
    Under the 2nd Amendment I'd agree with this statement. But unless you are a retired law enforcement officer, you don't qualify. It took years and years, and a lot of work to get LEOSA passed into law. If you want the same thing, do the work to get your law passed, or put your ten years in to qualify as a LEO.
    I hope I am not reading your post incorrectly. But it appears that you are saying "we have ours, now you need to try to get yours"........LEO's and retired LEO's are not a special class of folks and should not enjoy different priveleges and rights as the rest of us folks.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  11. #71
    Member Array gwgw60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    N. Virginia/Wasington DC
    Posts
    55

    Expand LEOSA to active duty/retired military?

    I was not talking about achieving LEO status, but in demonstrated firearms proficiency.

  12. #72
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    9,360
    Guys, there is more to LEOSA than " firearms profiency" which seems to be the only thing that some seem to be keying on.

    You can teach a monkey to pull a trigger. But the years of practicing and enforcing laws of the land, as well as specialized training in areas that are not directly linked to the application of deadly force, are things that are not taught in " shoot'em up " schools.

    Actually, someone right out of the academy still has alot to learn. That's probably the reason for the LEOSA law requiring at least 10 years of LE duty as a qualifier.

    It seems that there are some who are offended in the ego about not having this umbrella of the law. But regardless of what anyone " feels" , the fact of the matter is that until you have payed your dues, carried the badge, and continually placed yourself in harms way, learned how to handle the public, learn proper procedure for dealing with other Public Safety agencies, and had your family live under the fear of you not ever coming home the next morning, then you are not qualified.

    Call it what you want, it's the law of the land, and all the sour grapes in the world will not make your feet big enough to fill these boots.
    FlaRon and Secret Spuk like this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  13. #73
    Member Array gwgw60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    N. Virginia/Wasington DC
    Posts
    55

    Expand LEOSA to active duty/retired military?

    Those are fair points glockman10mm.

  14. #74
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,898
    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I hope I am not reading your post incorrectly. But it appears that you are saying "we have ours, now you need to try to get yours"........LEO's and retired LEO's are not a special class of folks and should not enjoy different priveleges and rights as the rest of us folks.
    Except as Glockman pointed out, they do tend to have special post-employment hazards.
    The Bubba they put away for 15 just might meet them on the street, in another city or state, and
    decide at the spur of the moment to take revenge.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  15. #75
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    TX/NH
    Posts
    5,968
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Except as Glockman pointed out, they do tend to have special post-employment hazards.
    The Bubba they put away for 15 just might meet them on the street, in another city or state, and
    decide at the spur of the moment to take revenge.
    Do you know how many folks have enemies in this country? Estranded wives, hubbies, BF's, GF's. What about an employer that fired someone that says he will get back at him someday. NCO's and Officers in the military that were instrumental in getting a servicemember kicked out because they were unfit. These folks hold grudges also. How abut folks that serve on a jury, the judge, lawyers, and witness's that put away the BG. Should they not have the same privelege as the retired LEO using the same logic. So the reitred LEO is the only one able to avail himself of protection across state lines. I grew up in MA with lots of mafia that swore revenge on folks. Should they not be able to wander the country safely with a firearm to protect themselves just like a retired LEO.

    And the threat obviously is there since we get notified if a BG is about to get released from prison.

    The point is to get rid of the stupid permits to begin with.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

2013 leosa
,
dod leosa opinion
,
dod police leosa 2013
,

leosa 2013

,

leosa 2013 military

,
leosa 2013 military police
,
leosa active duty military
,
leosa concealed carry ex military police
,

leosa military police

,
leosa military police 2013
,
leosa texas
,
military police leosa 2013
Click on a term to search for related topics.