Expand LEOSA to active duty/retired military?

This is a discussion on Expand LEOSA to active duty/retired military? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So while reading the verbiage in the LEOSA, I was thinking, why would this not apply to active duty military while off duty? Most AD ...

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    New Member Array NavyET08's Avatar
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    Expand LEOSA to active duty/retired military?

    So while reading the verbiage in the LEOSA, I was thinking, why would this not apply to active duty military while off duty? Most AD military have extensive training regarding weapon safety, proficiency, and we even train for active shooter scenarios. Now I understand those with PTSD, legal issues and other stuff should be excluded. I think AD should be able to carry concealed in accordance with the LEOSA while off duty. COMMENTS?

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    The majority of folks in the military do not train extensively on firearms. Nor do most train on active shooters scenarios. Most military does not train with handguns. Almost no one in the military except special ops folks and other MOS's train for concealed carry. The bulk of thr training for military is with M16/M4 type weapons. The Air Force and Navy due to the way they are set up do not train realisticaly with weapons.

    I fail to see your point at all. Or at least your rationale behind it. The only reason there are not a lot of ND's in the military is becasue the are too anal about gun safety.
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    Nice thought but I don't see that happening. Training for warfare is not the same as training for concealed carry (and its inherent responsibilities).
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    Ex Member Array Snatale42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyET08 View Post
    So while reading the verbiage in the LEOSA, I was thinking, why would this not apply to active duty military while off duty?
    Because as the acronym implies, It's the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act, Not the Retired Military safety act. It has nothing to do with overriding state firearms law for anybody with training. Active duty military wouldn't meet the requirements, even if they were MP's as they have no law enforcement authority in the real world outside of Military personal.
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    I'm not sure every mos should be able to but if your an mp or in an le role in your service you should be able to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diver1102 View Post
    I'm not sure every mos should be able to but if your an mp or in an le role in your service you should be able to.
    Why? Don't we already complain already how some pigs (no reference to LEO's LOL) are more equal than others? Being able to carry OC or CC is a right. No special priveleges should be conveyed because someone is retired LEO, military, MP/SP in the military. I swear, we try to find as many ways of accomodating the 2A as the anti's sometimes.
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    Ehhhhh. This would have to be done on a case by case basis. Otherwise, you would have every POG and non-combat MOS's trying to carry when they have NO idea what there doing, and on top of that, personally speaking from being in an infantry field, you don't receive the same type of training and awareness that a concealed carrier needs. Trust me, I wish this were true, but I know way to many former marines that should never be allowed to conceal a handgun ha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0331 View Post
    Ehhhhh. This would have to be done on a case by case basis. Otherwise, you would have every POG and non-combat MOS's trying to carry when they have NO idea what there doing, and on top of that, personally speaking from being in an infantry field, you don't receive the same type of training and awareness that a concealed carrier needs. Trust me, I wish this were true, but I know way to many former marines that should never be allowed to conceal a handgun ha.
    Many States do NOT require any training at all to issue a CCW and four States have "constitutional carry." There is no evidence that "training" as a requirement for concealed carry matters at all. I, for one, am in favor of "constitutional carry" throughout the USA.

    Ken
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    good comments

    I agree with those of you stating that we (American citizens) should be able to carry per 2A. The LEOSA grants no permission to arrest, apprehend, or detain anyone outside a LEO's jurisdiction which is why I don't see why it is solely for LE. The military at the very least trains safety and legal use of force. If you are assigned to a ship you are trained well on anti-terrorism and force protection. I just want to carry my gun without having to worry about CCW laws, not go out and save the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyET08 View Post
    I agree with those of you stating that we (American citizens) should be able to carry per 2A. The LEOSA grants no permission to arrest, apprehend, or detain anyone outside a LEO's jurisdiction which is why I don't see why it is solely for LE. The military at the very least trains safety and legal use of force. If you are assigned to a ship you are trained well on anti-terrorism and force protection. I just want to carry my gun without having to worry about CCW laws, not go out and save the world.
    The sentence in bold pretty well shows why the idea is not a good one. There is no such thing
    as not worrying about CC laws. Whether you have reciprocity for your own state's handgun laws
    or nationwide acceptance via LEOSA, you have to worry about the individual state laws; or at least
    familiarize yourself with them.
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    Re: Expand LEOSA to active duty/retired military?

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyET08 View Post
    I agree with those of you stating that we (American citizens) should be able to carry per 2A. The LEOSA grants no permission to arrest, apprehend, or detain anyone outside a LEO's jurisdiction which is why I don't see why it is solely for LE. The military at the very least trains safety and legal use of force. If you are assigned to a ship you are trained well on anti-terrorism and force protection. I just want to carry my gun without having to worry about CCW laws, not go out and save the world.
    "The Military" is a rather large scope and Military use of force laws are nearly inapplicable to armed self defense not in relation to Military duties, and the handgun training regarding "the military" as a whole is severly lacking then again a lot of LE handgun training is not much better.

    This is the same Military that doesn't trust its soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen to carry on thier own posts.

    Many of the people I've found to be in the most need of training in use of force law have been prior Military.

    I mean come on, the Military ROE typically calls for warning shots which has Landed some prior service types in some deep doodoo in the world outside of Military postings.

    Now, if the Military were to come up with a specific course to address these issues, and have a pistol course similar to what the Corps was using in the High Risk Personnel Course, then I would feel better about the idea, but as it stands right now there are few Billets, ratings, MOS' etc that I could see with justification to be part of LEOSA. NCIS (the real thing not the Crap you see on TV) and like personnel? Sure. But the Military as a whole? No way, not without more specilized training.

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    Senior Member Array RKflorida's Avatar
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    I spent 22 years fixing radar, teaching, playing darts, and drinking coffee. How does that instruct me in any manner for responsibly carrying a concealed weapon? The weapon experience I have is from activities on my own time. However, all that aside, I can now show my DD214 in Florida and have it substitute for a CC class. But, since the CC class is cheap, available everywhere, and only a few hours, why wouldn't I take it to get the information I don't have from military service? This is not a great burden and the benefit is to me.

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    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    Not all Army personnel receive extensive weapons training. While I served most of the combat arms personnel, infantry, airborne, combat engineers and of course Delta Force, Special Forces, Rangers, and a few other select organizations did receive on going/annual small arms weapons training and qualification. With that said, that leaves a lot of active Army personnel that have received no other small arms training other than the limited training received during basic training.

    Expand LEOSA to active duty/retired military? No.
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    LEOSA was written and intended for retired Law Enforcement officers, and it shouldn't be altered or changed to include non-law enforcement retirees, IMHO. Law Enforcement retiree's have spent their career carrying/concealing/utilizing and qualifying with sidearms as a regular part of their duties. In my agency we qualified once a quarter.

    I've had the opportunity to teach firearms courses, and to run qualifying courses in the role of Firearms Instructor while assigned to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC). From my experience, most of the prior military folks had little or no experience/training with pistols, with the exception of some prior special forces (Green Beret/Navy SEAL) troops. For the most part they train on rifles in boot camp to demonstrate proficiency and or minimal qualification, and then then don't shoot live ammo again. Coast Guard people probably train and qualify more with sidearms then any of the other services, due to their law enforcement mission.

    I utilize LEOSA, as it's good anywhere in the U.S., but I'm considering a CCW from my state as well, because the state of MS issues permits for 5 year periods, whereas the LEOSA has to be reissued each year, which is a pain. MS also waives the $100.00 fee for prior law enforcement officers as well, so $32.00 (fingerprint fee) is all that's required, with no training or classes necessary.

    Be safe.
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    Distinguished Member Array chuckusaret's Avatar
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    I have observed the quarterly LEO range training for several departments in my area and it amounts to nothing more then expending two boxes of ammo in the least amount of time possible for most officers. There are some exceptions, but very few.
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