Unexpected developments as a newbie...
This is a discussion on Unexpected developments as a newbie... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey all,
To recap from my intro, or in case you missed it: I'm not new to guns in general, but outside of the hunting ...
Post By carracer
Post By OldVet
Post By StevePVB
January 29th, 2013 10:53 AM
Unexpected developments as a newbie...
To recap from my intro, or in case you missed it: I'm not new to guns in general, but outside of the hunting shotguns and 22 revolver and BB guns I used as a kid, I've had little experience. Only recently have I decided to accept the great responsibility of owning a gun for SD/HD, and I've recently purchased a S&W Shield 9mm, and have taken the CCW course and am waiting patiently for my appointment to apply for my license. Unbelievably, when I called to make that appointment weeks ago, the earliest available one was April 8. So for now, I'm a gun owner with very limited rights, and that gets to the "unexpected developments" part of the title:
Having spent a little time here and other places online educating myself, reading books, watching videos on self defense, etc., I've become acutely aware of how badly I want to have that gun on me at all times. I'd like to think I was never foolhardy, and I'd love to convince myself I was never a "sheep," but I'm not too proud to admit that my eyes have been opened. When I think back to how many ATMs I've frequented at all hours (3 a.m. is not unusual--I'm a very busy, self-employed person who sometimes pays myself in cash from one bank to another, and sometimes when I get off work), where I've parked, and how exposed I have been on numerous occasions, all I can do is thank God I've never been picked out by a BG. --And the flipside of this gratitude is that it's torture for me--now that I know how unsafe my life can be on occasion--to not be able to be armed. I'm not the type of person to just be impatient, itching to get my permit just because I can't wait. What it comes down to is that for 35 years, I have been unarmed and fine with it, because I wasn't cognizant of how badly I might need to be armed. Now that I have a greater SA, the 4 months I'm having to go unarmed seems like an eternity. Of course, I don't need a license or a weapon to practice better SA and tactical thinking, and that's exactly what I'm doing. And it makes me cringe to think of some of the parking spaces I have been willing to settle for in the past, etc. So I'm trying to do better.
On a related note: even though by FL law, I'm allowed to carry in my house, in my car, and at work without a permit, there's a glaring omission in my rights that effectively makes it illegal to protect myself at work: I can have the gun inmy car in the parking lot, but as soon as I pull it out to walk into my office, I'm committing a 3rd degree felony. I have one suite in a large shared facility, so the "common areas" such as the parking lot, hallways, lobby, etc. are off-limits. This is the same issue condo owners have under our law as written. This is according to the Gutmacher "green book," where he drives that point home several times. In day to day life, the place where I want that firearm THE MOST is between my office and my car when I'm headed home at night. If I get into something on the way out, I don't think I'm going to get to say, "hold on a sec, guys, while I get in my car and make this an even fight..." How frustrating.
January 29th, 2013 11:33 AM
Parks as close to your building exit as possible & run like the bats of hell are chasing you until you get to your car & your armed protection, lol. Seriously - consider carrying OC spray but check your laws first. I'd suggest a collapsible baton but that's not too effective against an armed attacker & your laws would have to be checked for the legality of that, too.
The only other thing you could do is hire me to be your bodyguard for the interim if you arrange for my travel & lodging. I wouldn't mind riding out the winter in Florida instead of WI. Of course I don't come cheap, lol.
USN Submarine & UDT/SEAL Veteran
1SG, US Army Retired - Airborne Infantry All the Way!
Retired PI/Armed Security
January 29th, 2013 11:55 AM
Congratulations on your choice to accept responsibility for your self and your family! Remember that regardless of how you are restricted by laws and rules, your best defense is situation awareness. You don't have to be paranoid, just aware.
January 29th, 2013 01:48 PM
I had to work some very late hours for a week or so recently, and I practically pulled my car up to the back door, angled so I was only a few steps from a straight shot out. --And I did exactly what you said. As far as spray: not a bad idea in general. I'm fine under 3 oz. I believe. Collapsible baton would fall under the CWP laws in FL. I can openly carry just about anything in the world, other than a gun. But our permit is not just for guns--it's for everything. The only thing you can carry concealed without it is a "common pocketknife" and a small spray.
Originally Posted by GH
As for the fine line between situational awareness and paranoia, I'm still working that one out. I don't think I'm paranoid, but like I mentioned, I've gone about my business as usual a couple of times and thought, "Are you KIDDING ME? I would normally park right here and not give it a second thought. What have I been smoking?" (I haven't been smoking anything, BTW).
One more thing: I've also noticed--and it could just be coincidence, or it could be heightened SA--many more situations of possibly deranged people on the verge of potentially starting a scene. --People screaming at each other, having rage fits in cars (in one instance screaming "@#$ THOSE COPS!" several times in reference to a group of LEOs eating inside a Chick-fil-A), etc. There are many ticking time bombs around us. I can only think of two situations in my life when I could have at least had a hand on a gun if I had had one. 2 instances in 35 years...let's hope that luck holds up for another 3 months or so.
January 29th, 2013 02:12 PM
You made it this far, you'll make it until your CWFL arrives. Be vigilant.
Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon at large. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
January 29th, 2013 02:30 PM
Look at the waiting period as a great opportunity to practice patience and SA. The patience you learn will help you immeasurably in evaluating and avoiding situations that could get you in trouble. You can also assess the choices you make and you can modify behavior to keep you safer - like for example, not going to ATMs at 3 a.m. As busy as you are, I'm sure you can re-arrange your schedule to visit ATMs during the day. As carracer pointed out, "your best defense is situation awareness."
ellCogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)
January 29th, 2013 02:48 PM
Be careful, if I understand what you are saying...you may NOT carry in your car.
Originally Posted by DesignDawg
Concealed Weapons Attorney Orlando, FL - Jon H. Gutmacher:
Unless you have a Concealed Weapons Permit (CWP) carrying a concealed firearm other than on your own property or the property of your business is a third degree felony in Florida punishable by up to five years imprisonment. [Florida Statute 790.01]. A similar provision applies to other weapons that are not firearms, however, the punishment is a first degree misdemeanor. The most common arrest for carrying a concealed firearm in Florida is when a hand gun is placed under a seat in a car without the hand gun being placed inside a snapped holster. This is generally against the law because the firearm is not “securely encased”.
Getting your permit WILL eliminate this problem.
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
January 29th, 2013 03:04 PM
Nah, I've read the book that comes from in its entirety at least 3 times now. --Some sections more than once. The key words in the above quote is the "without the gun being placed in a snapped holster." The laws pertaining to car carry in FL are pretty well-established. Basically, anywhere if securely encased (in a snapped holster, zippered bag, etc.) or with or without a holster in a closed compartment (glove compartment, console with lid, etc., whether locked or unlocked). I'm definitely legal in the car. But you're right...a permit will eliminate MANY problems. It will change next to nothing about how I can carry in my car (it will only add "on my person" as an option).
Originally Posted by retsupt99
January 29th, 2013 03:34 PM
Interesting dialogue between resupt99 and DesignDawg (the OP). It is amazing how complicated and vague gun laws can be. In a recent training course we had an EPO (environmental police officer) and a state policeman in the room. Even they couldn't agree on certain laws in response to questions from the class. The instructor held up a document that was Vermont's gun laws (basically 1 sheet of paper) and then Massachusetts laws and it had to be well over 100 pages. I think we need gun law reform in this country, but not to make them more onerous to law-abiding citizens but to simplify and commonize across states to the extent possible. For example, I keep reading about people with carry permits from other states getting into huge problems in states such as NJ and NY.
Certified NRA RSO
EDC: M&P 9c
Favorite Firearm: 1968 SW .357 Revolver
January 29th, 2013 03:52 PM
Hmmmm, getting close to spring time in FL. or do you even have a spring, anyway carry a baseball bat with a glove hung on it, just carry it over your shoulder in OC. That way you are just headed out to hit a few balls with friends. Bat > baton anyway.
Seriously, The reason I started carrying all the time was after I was working late one night on the refrigeration system at a package store in a bad part of town. Equipment was on roof and I was running in and out of the store back to the roof ect. On one of my trips from inside out, as I was climbing back up the ladder a concrete block hit the ladder and broke it about a foot above my head. Thankfully it didn't hit me and also thankfully I still had my 12" pipe wrench in my hand as I got up because the other guy was coming towards me with a piece of pipe about 18" long. I hit his forearm with the wrench and then broke his collar bone with the next stroke, I continued to aim blows at his back as he finally out ran me. The other guys was foolishly trapped on the roof by the absence of the ladder he knocked down and was collected by the Officers who responded to the call from the cashier who called 911 to report the service guy chasing a customer around the parking lot with a weapon.
The other guy was apprehended at the local ER with several broken bones and after I told my story: I was released from custody.
I hate to think what would have happened had I not had something to defend myself with. A blunt object is better than nothing and a 30" bat has a long reach, Heck with a bat I might have taken the guy out.
January 29th, 2013 03:57 PM
Hehe, yeah, we have Spring. But it's 80 degrees here today, so... :)
Our softball seasons go year-round.
January 29th, 2013 04:01 PM
Cool! When I need to get somewhere in a hurry, I like to imagine the Eumenides on my tail.
Originally Posted by GH
I also wholeheartedly agree with bengoodluck's comment. You sound like you are making up for lost time with a vengeance. Keep it up and imagine how you would deal with various scenarios during this time.
January 29th, 2013 04:21 PM
Like everyone else here IANAL. My reading of Gutmacher is you may not carry on your person in a car if you don't have the concealed license. Otherwise securely encased is OK. Now that doesn't solve the temporary problem if you live in an apartment and need to carry across the parking lot to your car.
Originally Posted by retsupt99
January 29th, 2013 04:31 PM
Another somewhat unexpected development is that I'm finding out so many people I know that are involved in this sport/lifestyle/choice, and I had no idea. I've run into a couple of people unexpectedly at the range, and just yesterday, I discovered that somebody I Crossfit with is a tactical firearms instructor. I vaguely remember seeing his flyer at the box before, but since I wasn't "involved" with guns at the time, it just flew right past me. Yesterday, it jumped out at me, and then I noticed his name. --More of that awareness of one's surroundings, I guess.
January 30th, 2013 01:46 AM
Constitutional Rights are between you and the government, they don't play into relations between employee and employer and the latter owns the property and the company you work for.
Originally Posted by DesignDawg
This is the same as your house, if I come in armed it's not my Constitutional Right to do so and if you want me out until I lose the gun, that's your right, it's your home. Same with an employer.
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