I believe it's RKBA, not RKBA/WT (With Training)...the permit to carry a firearm should be very easy/quick to get.
That said, I have ALWAYS told people seeking a permit that getting one was just the beginning, and they needed to seek out a 1-2 day SD pistol course.
Someone discovering a serious stalker, or fearing a rash of home break-in's shouldn't have to master a series of tests to get the 'tools' for SD/HD.OMOYMV
Carrying/owning a gun(s) is a HUGE responsibility so with that in mind the individual should take it upon him/herself to properly train to use that gun(s).
Think of it this way if I was in a store/restaurant, etc that allowed CC and there was a person carrying that just recently bought a gun but never really learned how to operate that gun safely and he went to adjust the gun to sit down, bend down, etc and he accidentally pulled the trigger and shot himself or the floor. What would people say/think? I know I would be upset at him because it seems he doesn't know how to safely operate his gun.
Us as responsible gun owners should take it upon ourselves whether required or not to properly learn how to safely operate/shoot/carry our guns that way we aren't at risk of hurting ourselves or anyone around us.
Also, a lot of the stories here have been at the range or in their house where no CCP is requuired..therefore they would not have had to undergo the mandatory training.
Your post just highlites what I am trying to get at: there is no evidence that mandatory training states have less incidents of human error and human judgement by a CC'er while out in the public.
Given the way statistics are calculated, I'm not sure that this is quantifiable enough to form a correlation. You're going to have to find out all of this information on a state by state breakdown, then find out all crimes committed by legal firearm owners/ccp holders where a gun was involved. Then you will have to quantify the population percentage in regards to the crime for each state.
You will need to know all of these statistics PLUS the number of permit holders who committed the offense.
3) reported AD/ND (discharges)
4) criminal trespass with a firearm
5) Robbery with firearm
6) Home invasion with firearm
7) Domestic disputes with firearm
8) Kidnapping with firearm
Then, you will have to find a way to correlate the data to legal permit holders. Because the number of permit holders who commit offenses is so low, it is possible... It's just way too much data to rummage through and calculate. Plus, I don't know if it is recorded accurately enough to truly make a connection.
Link to FBI crime statistics. Good luck.
Suntzu, I don't think the question as is is a fair one either way. All that can be learned are opinions based not on any facts from either side, but he said- she said approach.
As far as a concer for needing a firearm for emergency purposes such as EPO/DVO situations, this could easily be factored in with provision that required training could be waived with a copy of the order for x amount of time while applying for the permit. And of course, use in the home is private and should of course, be exempt from any requirements for purchase.
I wish, the 2nd Amendment was recognized as a national carry right for all, and was safe from the infringement or attack of liberal wacko's.
But it's not. And for every person that is totally negligent, thru ignorance or carelessness, it gives them more ammo against us.
This is just the nature of our reality. We should be asking ourselves how we can tighten up our ranks, and strengthen our credibility as gun owners and enthusiasts.
It's sad that I or we have to justify anything. But that's where we are at, and some of our clueless and non proficient brethren blowing holes in the ceilings of Walmart, or having accidental discharges in public places are destroying us.
The only crimes I were talking about were for illegal use of a firearm which training suppose to prevent (brandishing, trespassing, shooting a dude in the back as he was running away from the guys house...bad shoots.)
Looking back on some of these posts, I have to say that I definitely agree with glockman. I wouldn't be against any required firearms safety courses. I would want it to happen at a young age, though. I also wouldn't want it to have any bearing on an individuals right to arms. Just like they have done with drivers licenses requirements of a student to be enrolled in education - the same could be done with firearms safety. Only, the kids should be required to take and pass the course to proceed to X grade level. For the safety of ALL of the students in public education.
Because that is what really matters. Basic firearm safety. We can't trust the schools to teach it. It should be done in a similar way that the hunting education courses are taught. I'd be fine with something like this.
You get evidence for the need for training every deer season. Look at the damage a bullet does. I don't care if you have no training and keep your weapon at home. The only casualties there are you and yours, but when you go out in public with no idea of what is proper or legal, then it becomes my problem. I believe in personal responsibility, but that doesn't help if you start shooting at the wrong time, wrong target, or just plain miss your intended target and hit me or mine.
Guess so far there is no proof or evidence that states like TX are better than NH, VT, Alaska, and all the other states that have no mandatory training.
No evidence,no proof...then no law should be made to make it mandatory. By making it mandatory it incurs costs on the individual wanting to exercise a right. And they are beiing prohiited against it by laws that make mandatory trainig (which has no foundation in any stats people can come up with) required to carry.
If folks think it is OK to pass laws without any proof it works or not and costs folks money then that is up to you (people in general). But until there is data on the subject it is an opinoon...not a fact that mandatory training is nescessary
As a teacher, I can tell you how fast someone can forget what's covered in a class right after they take the test.
I'll go out on a limb here. I would guess that anyone who gets their permit and does in fact carry with regularity will pay attention to the class material, and will seek out some additional training, or at least keep reading forums like this, to improve their understanding of the responsibility they've taken on. The many who get their permit with no real intent to carry, or who soon decide it's too much hassle, won't maintain or improve their knowledge. JMO.