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Mandatory traing states for CHL vs non training states

35K views 531 replies 59 participants last post by  Aceoky 
#1 · (Edited)
OK,

I see a lot of folks saying that mandatory training and mandatory qualification is needed and should be required for a CHL. They state that it is for the protection of the public at large and for the protection of the person carrying the gun.

Please, somebody show me stats, hard evidence, that mandatory training states are better than non mandatory training states as far as
1. The wrongful use of a firearm by CHL/CCP holder
2. Inicidents of arrests for trespassing by CHL/CCP holders
3. Errant shots fired by CHL/CCP holders
4. Illegel use of a fireamr by CHL/CCP holders EDIT:such as brandishing, bad shoots, ects....NOT crimes committed malichievously)

Feel free to throw in other data.

I understand that it may be the opinion of folks that training should be mandatory or not. But...if that is your opinion and you think it should be law then I would hope that you guys have the data to prove it. I for oone do not like laws neing made with anecdotal evidence or one or two spectacular events. That is like pushing through the AWB because of very isolted cases of misues of madman using those weapons.

Laws should be made to protect the public and their should be data to back it up.

OK...ball is in your court.
 
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#48 ·
Laws are made by legislatures which are elected by the people. There is nothing that says they have to make sense. If the people don't like them, they can elect new folks to change them.

Been that way for 200+ years in this country and every state.
 
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#49 ·
What kind of answer is that. Do you sir beleive mandatory training is required to get a CHL? Simple, I don;t need a civics class. As an "expert" your thoughts carry weight with the general public. If a certified instructor says they beleive that mandatory training is required then they will take that as fact. But sir, you have no fact to suppport mandatory training.
So I ask you....do you 1-support mandatory training and 2-can you prove at all that it makes any difference when compared to states where it is not required?
 
#54 ·
There were 2 guys in my CWP class that I did not feel comfortable being on the same range with! They were border line dangerous, the came together and had purchased their Glocks the week before the class and had fired them once before.

MANY people do not grow up around guns as most of us did. I think its great these people want to carry but without training... I just hope they don't do it around me!

I vote yes for required training.
 
#342 ·
This has little to do with the exercise of our right. The founding fathers considered it so important that they placed it 2nd in importance behind our right discuss issues such as this without fear of government censure or retribution, 2nd because they realized to protect that right we had to be able to defend it and they in their wisdom gave us that ability by giving us the means to fight against those who would take our rights away. To protect our right we must be able to use the tools thus IMO training and practice should be the partiotic duty of the individual and not done simply because the same people that would regulate that right require it.

Does the requirement of mandatory training make sense ? IMO the question should never arise; I can buy a hammer but to drive a nail properly takes practice. My thumb implores me to learn to hammer properly.
 
#58 ·
It is an enigma to me how we put so much value on education for everything in this country, yet balk at the idea of mandatory education before carrying a firearm among the public.

Additionally frustrating is the idea that somehow having a standard for this upsurps ones Constitutional right to the exercise thereof. Since having a CCW permit is already established, a more stringent and informative CCW class could be instituted and funded from the sale of confiscated property from drug busts or even drug money.

Thinking outside the box is a little difficult, I know, but it would benefit all gun owners in the long haul. Because sooner or later, if we don't , the Goverment will, and we won't have a say.
 
#62 ·
It is an enigma to me how we put so much value on education for everything in this country, yet balk at the idea of mandatory education before carrying a firearm among the public.
It's the "before" part that bothers people, not the education. It's a fundamental right to bear arms. That means to carry arms in public. The 2nd Amendment doesn't say shall not be infringed, after all the government mandated training.

Additionally frustrating is the idea that somehow having a standard for this upsurps ones Constitutional right to the exercise thereof. Since having a CCW permit is already established, a more stringent and informative CCW class could be instituted and funded from the sale of confiscated property from drug busts or even drug money.
It certainly does usurp our right. The fundamental right isn't what the government chooses to leave us with after it strips away all of the right it wants to on the whim of the majority.


Thinking outside the box is a little difficult, I know, but it would benefit all gun owners in the long haul. Because sooner or later, if we don't , the Goverment will, and we won't have a say.
So, yeah. They don't want to take our guns. We just need to go ahead and register our guns. Pay our license fees and taxes on our guns. Let them microchip our ammo. Turn in all our mean looking guns with all those big looking magazines. If we just go along with all their neat ideas telling us how we should store our guns. Sure sure, lets all just turn our guns into the government until we get "properly" trained. If we just go along with all these great ideas, you know, letting the government regulate those ideas into law. Then everything will be just sunshine and lollipops for us gun owners right? Cause if we don't go along, the government is going to do it anyway? We won't have any say in what the Government does? Really?
 
#59 ·
Nobody likes things to be mandatory. There are lots of reasons for people handling a deadly firearm around others to be trained. But one of the reasons for a state having mandatory training requirements is that a concealed weapons permit issued by that state is more likely to be recognized by other states which require training. It is a real pain to travel through states which do not grant reciprocity to your state for carry permits. Sorry if this is a slight shift in the thread.
 
#65 ·
There is, in fact, data demonstrating the efficacy of firearms training. I can cite a few examples here:

Prevention of Handgun Accidents Through Owner Training. Miller, et al., Dept. of Criminology, East TN State Univ. Int Q Community Health Educ. 1989 Jan.
The authors examined 294 handgun owners over a five year period to determine the effectiveness of handgun training on accident reduction. The results were statistically significant and support the need for owner training.

The Risk of Involuntary Firearms Discharge. Heim, et al., Universitat Frankfort, Institute of Sports Science. Hum Factors. 2006 Fall
Dr. Heim utilized two experiments demonstrating that practice/training improved police aim while reducing involuntary gun discharges, supporting the effectiveness of such training on real-life situations.

Reality-based Practice Under Pressure Improves Handgun Shooting Performance of Police Officers. Oudejans, RR. Research Institute MOVE, Univ of Amsterdam. Ergonomics. 2008 March.
This study examined the utilization of reality based practice/training under pressure in preventing the degradation of handgun shooting performance in police officers. Data showed such training exercises acclimatized shooting performance of the subject officers.

And, not to neglect the kiddies:

Comparison of Two Programs to Teach Firearm Injury Prevention Skills to 6 and 7 year old Children. Gatheridge, et al., Dept. of Psychology, ND State Univ. Pediatrics. 2004, Sept.
Dr. Gatheridge and 6 other colleages performed this study involving training of 6 & 7 year olds in preventing accidental firearm injuries. Using active learning approaches of modeling, rehearsal and feedback, they confirmed that this program was effective in teaching the desired safety skills to this research cohort of 45 children.

Evaluation of Age-Appropriate Firearm Safety Interventions. Howard, PK. Dept. of Emergency Med, Univ of Kentucky Hosp. Pediatr Emerg Care. 2005, Jul.
Dr. Howard’s study tested the effects of 3 levels of firearms safety training on school age children. In the group of 57, an 81% increase in knowledge was demonstrated with ongoing long term retention .

The assertion comparing “trained CC holders to untrained” is essentially a mute point, as the study you describe would be essentially impossible to design and complete with any degree of scientific accuracy. In the absence of such “hard data”, as you describe, we must rely on available data in ascertaining the effectiveness of firearms training. I’ve offered some here, there is more in the scientific literature. The available data, coupled with the fact that there was no identified data to the contrary, infers that training is in fact effective, and given the stakes involved, should be required for those choosing to carry a firearm in public---concealed or open.
 
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#69 ·
Do any of those differentiate between what happens in the home/property and out in public? Because we're talking about for cc permits and protecting the public (from us!).
 
#78 ·
I knew it wouldn't be long before our second resident advocate for nanny state mandatory training would show up. Now, Hopyard, before we get started, how about you actually respond to the arguments you evaded over and over and eventually walked away from in our previous discussion? Why mandate training only for the small subset of firearm owners that want to carry a concealed handgun?
 
#80 ·
Personally and btw constitutionally there shouldnt be any restriction on a non violent criminal owning any weapon they wish and carrying it anywhere they darn well please.

But on with the show at hand. LEO please dont take offense to this. Police are trained and qualify at specified periods. Compared to to firearm carrying civilians in shoot situations their ratio of rounds fired to hits made on target is woefully less than untrained civilian accuracy in the same situation. There is also the vido of the LE in a classroom full of kids demonstrating a firearm and as he uttered "IM the only one in this room qualified to handle a firearm" shot himself in the foot.:blink:

Mandatory anything concerning firearms is senseless. Accidental discharges are relatively few and far between and national media doesnt jump on them like killings by criminals to demonize us all.
If you want folks to get training then how about spending fraction of the money being tossed around by both sides to fatten politicians wallets and use it to offer free voluntary safety training and shooting courses? Lots would take them if that were the case.
Of course that would kill the tactical training schools that are around so it wont happen.

Bottom line is I nor anyone on this forum nor the government has the right to restrict a law abiding citizens right to own and bear arms, make them train or shoot the first target if they dont want to. As it should be. All the discussions about could we should we there ought to be a law etc etc etc in the end boil down to that and ultimately when enough are sick to death of having their rights stripped away a little at time in the name of whats good for us. will believe it or not hit that brick wall made of paper called the constitution of the United States.
Backed up by an armed populace that out numbers LE Military and federal enforcement officers to the tune of something like 78 to one.
 
#81 ·
But on with the show at hand. LEO please dont take offense to this. Police are trained and qualify at specified periods. Compared to to firearm carrying civilians in shoot situations their ratio of rounds fired to hits made on target is woefully less than untrained civilian accuracy in the same situation. There is also the vido of the LE in a classroom full of kids demonstrating a firearm and as he uttered "IM the only one in this room qualified to handle a firearm" shot himself in the foot.:blink:

.
And they are careless and negligent as well.

Like the cop here in Marysville that left 2 kids in a car and an unsecured loaded gun in the glove compartment. Only one kid remains.

Charges were filed, but he got off...hung jury (???) and they decided not to refile. (The county refused to bring charges originally until the public demanded it. The same week of his incident, a Hispanic couple in Yakima left their 3 yr old in a van and he found a gun and killed himself. THEY were both charged imediately and found guilty of 2nd degree manslaughter. County prosecutor's office here told me: 'different jurisdictions handle things differently")
 
#95 ·
Glockman10MM If they pass a hi cap mag ban, I will still have access to them, but you wont. No, its not right, but that is the reality that we are facing.


You probably will. Then again maybe you wont. You are in KY ya know. :smile: Not NY.

Lord if I ever put my picture on here and you pull me over I can see a ticket long as my leg LOL:wink:
 
#99 ·
Im beat to death with this. The constitution was put in place to give the people the right to resist and abolish government courts legislators etc etc if and when they become tyrannical to the point the peoples liberty is threatened. Thats the long and short of it and talking about modern day abuses as if they are done deals just because modern day tyrunts say they are is to ignore the principles this nation was founded on. With the blood of millions over the years.

Just because the public HAS tolerated it for years does not mean they always will. The British had quite a shock in the past. Win lose or draw the Federals had an unpleasant surprise the nation still has not fully recovered from with the Civil War,

To think history cant repeat itself is the beginning of living in a fantasy world. The powers that be do not have the muscle to take all citizens weapons by force. Not and have any country left to govern afterward if they can at all.

This continual push that the people have to be regulated in some way in every facet of their life will turn out bad. Mandatory training registration confiscation etc may slip thru a few north eastern states. Bring it thru the rest of the two thirds of the country as some seem to want to do even here and feel every right to, is bad Juju I would rather not have to live through thank you. At least wait 30 yrs or something like that so I can be gone when the muskets get brought out please
 
#105 ·
I personally believe that one must be able to show proper safe handling of a firearm. As well as show some sort of competence with a firearm. However, I do NOT believe that a hardcore tactical training class is a must. While it's certainly not a bad idea, as well as training as regularly as you can, I just don't think people NEED to go through rigorous training. That should be an option that is encouraged. Like it currently is.

In PA, there is nothing needed other than passing a background check, but I would be more than happy to show my competence with a firearm if I was required to do so. I do what I can at the range and dry fire practice at home. And I encourage my friends to do the same. Simple skills such as drawing from concealment, drawing while moving in any direction, shooting while moving in any direction, shooting from cover, shooting one handed, left and right, point shooting, reloads and malfunction drills are a minimum, which are things that can easily be learned.

But on the other hand, I'm going to make a big assumption that probably leans on the correct side that says, a large portion of successful self defense shootings were done by a person with very little to no training. Training is a good thing and will give you a great advantage, but in my opinion, serious, hardcore training just isn't 100% necessary. Simple training on the safe handling of a firearm and learning to at least do the bare minimum is a must.
 
#108 ·
I personally believe that one must be able to show proper safe handling of a firearm. As well as show some sort of competence with a firearm.
I have no right to defend myself unless I can demonstrate that to your satisfaction? Oh that's right. I saw the homeland security video. I can hide under a desk, or maybe use a pair of scissors. How much training is required to teach four rules of safe gun handling? How much firearm competence does it take to pull out a gun, point, pull the trigger, and shoot a scumbag who desperately deserves it at point blank range? It's so easy even children do a nice job of it.
 
#117 ·
Personal responsibility should be mandate.. I dont like nanny type of government telling people that they have to get training. On the other hand, I sure hope if you carry that you either trained with someone who knows what they are doing, or made a decision to get training on thier own. I think taking personl responsibility to train and be extremely comfortable with what your carrying should be your own mandate, self discipline should be our mind sets!
 
#124 ·
Personal responsibility should be mandate..
Personal responsibility is already mandated. There are all kinds of laws that mandate what your personal responsibility is. The law that mandates your personal responsibility not to murder someone applies to everyone. They don't mandate training on that law, except for legal firearm owners. What training do you think we should mandate for all the criminals that are actually the ones out murdering people with guns?
 
#119 ·
I have not read all respondents but have noticed something that begged my comment:
The whole "fundamental/god given right" statement. The constitution is a legal document, the Ammendments are some of the terms of that document. Terms can be changed, and I some cases should be as times change. People of color were not originally included as citizens, they are now. Weapons training (when the 2a was drafted by HUMANS-not a diety) was part of everyday life. The framers never foresaw a time when an adult would not know the basics of firearm safety, heck when drafted an idiot with a gun could be stopped before an accident became a slaughter.

I don't advocate mag limits or such, but a minimum of safety KNOWLEDGE shoul be demonstrated prior to being allowed to go about on public with a firearm. It is for public safety which IS a province of the government ("Promote the general welfare"). Should one have to take a class to buy a gun, no. Carry one in public, no. But one should have to prove they are responsible to carry in, and potentially threaten the safety of, the public.

Then again, I feel that anyone carrying should be required to show LE said proof upon demand. I.E. there permit to carry in public. What one does on their property is their business, however in public it becomes the publics business, and government is the voice of the public.

Your rights end when they usurp mine.
 
#120 ·
Tennessee’s Handgun Carry Permit Scheme Is A De facto Ban For Poor People.

The other day I renewed my state issued Handgun Carry permit (HCP), the renewal cost me $50.00. But that made me stop and think about what it cost today to get a permit for the new applicant, because a friend of mine is in the middle of that process now…

People often say that TN is a gun friendly state.

That normally causes me to snort loudly, while spewing my coffee… or in a rare moment when I don’t have a coffee cup in my hands, just to bust out laughing at whomever said it. TN is far from anything, even remotely close to resembling, “a gun friendly state.”

But lets focus on the topic of my little rant. The state issued hand gun carry permit scheme and how this wonderful state has priced it (intentionally, I believe) out of reach of the poor, the working poor and the vast numbers of people who simply live paycheck to paycheck. And cannot afford to spend several hundred dollar on a piece of government issued plastic. Showing where you bowed down before the alter and laid offering at the feet of the almighty .gov, who graciously gave you state sanctioned permission to exercise one of your rights.

The state will tell you the permit costs $115.00, which that is mostly true, mostly… That’s how much you’ll have to fork over to the department of safety when you give them your application, BUT…

Before you get to this point, one must take a state required safety course, which on average costs about $75.00 and is 8 hours long… usually given on the weekends, occasionally on a Thursday or Friday at a few locations. Now if you’re like me you actually work for a living. And your job might require you to work those days… so now, you’ll have to take off a day from work without pay or burn a vacation day you otherwise wouldn’t have… so lets say you earn $10.00 per hour and you work 10 hours a day. That’s $100.00. Add that to the $75.00 for the course, plus the $115.00 to the state and were up to $290.00.

But wait, that’s not all!

The state requires a certified, state issued copy of your original birth certificate to accompany your application, which depending on what state you were born in can run you upwards of $50.00. For me it cost $25.00 so I’ll use that figure. Now were at $315.00, you have shelled out so you can exercise your God given, Constitutionally protected right. (void where prohibited, some restrictions may apply, of course…)

Now recall I used the rate of $10.00 an hour as your pay. Probably a close average pay rate for this state, but how many of you make much more than that?

Now you might as well also add in the box of ammo for your required shooting test (50 rounds) and any other cost too, like the gas you’ll waste running to and from the course, then to and from the DMV, to one of the approved locations to get your fingerprints taken, (they don’t do them there)… then back to the DMV to finally give them all this paperwork… and you better hope its all in order too!

We’re talking about the poor and working poor here so think about this from their standpoint. Here I have demonstrated the permit is well over $300.00 for something the Constitution says is your right. Just like free speech, and your rights to trial by jury and to be free from unwarranted searches.

But in “Gun Friendly” Tennessee that will cost you well over $300.00

If your poor, that could well be an entire months rent, or many, many days worth of groceries.

So, it is my opinion that the wonderful gun loving state of TN has intentionally priced its handgun carry permit out of the reach of a great number of its citizens. This is/was intentional, just as in your face as all those unconstitutional Jim Crow laws of yesteryear, this is no different. Its a Poll Tax plain and simple. One designed to keep a right, just out of reach of many in this state.

Many who, arguably need to carry a firearm for protection due to where they might live than any other group.

Think about that, when was the last time you heard of a mugging in the upper crust neighborhoods of the rich and shameless?

What about the lower income neighborhoods of Memphis, Nashville or Chattanooga?

The cost of the HCP in the state of Tennessee amounts to a De facto ban, effectively prohibiting poor people from obtaining a permit to carry a firearm for lawful self defense.

The gun owners in this state need to wake up, stop lying to themselves and think for once in their lives.

This state is NOT gun friendly.

Tennessee?s Handgun Carry Permit Scheme Is A De facto Ban For Poor People. « This Ain't Hell, But You Can See It From Here!
 
#125 ·
The other day I renewed my state issued Handgun Carry permit (HCP), the renewal cost me $50.00. But that made me stop and think about what it cost today to get a permit for the new applicant, because a friend of mine is in the middle of that process now…

People often say that TN is a gun friendly state.

That normally causes me to snort loudly, while spewing my coffee… or in a rare moment when I don’t have a coffee cup in my hands, just to bust out laughing at whomever said it. TN is far from anything, even remotely close to resembling, “a gun friendly state.”

But lets focus on the topic of my little rant. The state issued hand gun carry permit scheme and how this wonderful state has priced it (intentionally, I believe) out of reach of the poor, the working poor and the vast numbers of people who simply live paycheck to paycheck. And cannot afford to spend several hundred dollar on a piece of government issued plastic. Showing where you bowed down before the alter and laid offering at the feet of the almighty .gov, who graciously gave you state sanctioned permission to exercise one of your rights.

The state will tell you the permit costs $115.00, which that is mostly true, mostly… That’s how much you’ll have to fork over to the department of safety when you give them your application, BUT…

Before you get to this point, one must take a state required safety course, which on average costs about $75.00 and is 8 hours long… usually given on the weekends, occasionally on a Thursday or Friday at a few locations. Now if you’re like me you actually work for a living. And your job might require you to work those days… so now, you’ll have to take off a day from work without pay or burn a vacation day you otherwise wouldn’t have… so lets say you earn $10.00 per hour and you work 10 hours a day. That’s $100.00. Add that to the $75.00 for the course, plus the $115.00 to the state and were up to $290.00.

But wait, that’s not all!

The state requires a certified, state issued copy of your original birth certificate to accompany your application, which depending on what state you were born in can run you upwards of $50.00. For me it cost $25.00 so I’ll use that figure. Now were at $315.00, you have shelled out so you can exercise your God given, Constitutionally protected right. (void where prohibited, some restrictions may apply, of course…)

Now recall I used the rate of $10.00 an hour as your pay. Probably a close average pay rate for this state, but how many of you make much more than that?

Now you might as well also add in the box of ammo for your required shooting test (50 rounds) and any other cost too, like the gas you’ll waste running to and from the course, then to and from the DMV, to one of the approved locations to get your fingerprints taken, (they don’t do them there)… then back to the DMV to finally give them all this paperwork… and you better hope its all in order too!

We’re talking about the poor and working poor here so think about this from their standpoint. Here I have demonstrated the permit is well over $300.00 for something the Constitution says is your right. Just like free speech, and your rights to trial by jury and to be free from unwarranted searches.

But in “Gun Friendly” Tennessee that will cost you well over $300.00

If your poor, that could well be an entire months rent, or many, many days worth of groceries.

So, it is my opinion that the wonderful gun loving state of TN has intentionally priced its handgun carry permit out of the reach of a great number of its citizens. This is/was intentional, just as in your face as all those unconstitutional Jim Crow laws of yesteryear, this is no different. Its a Poll Tax plain and simple. One designed to keep a right, just out of reach of many in this state.

Many who, arguably need to carry a firearm for protection due to where they might live than any other group.

Think about that, when was the last time you heard of a mugging in the upper crust neighborhoods of the rich and shameless?

What about the lower income neighborhoods of Memphis, Nashville or Chattanooga?

The cost of the HCP in the state of Tennessee amounts to a De facto ban, effectively prohibiting poor people from obtaining a permit to carry a firearm for lawful self defense.

The gun owners in this state need to wake up, stop lying to themselves and think for once in their lives.

This state is NOT gun friendly.

Tennessee?s Handgun Carry Permit Scheme Is A De facto Ban For Poor People. « This Ain't Hell, But You Can See It From Here!
I absolutely agree. This is just as much intentional as every other anti-gun law has ever been. It's not just the poor. It's keeping my wife from carrying and I can afford all the costs.
 
#128 ·
This may nor may not be construed to be "off topic" a bit, but one issue I have always considered is IF some of the regulations and attached fees and costs have a negative impact on lower income folks and minorities.

It seems to me at least that a reasonable person would have to admit that the more it costs to buy a firearm and ammunition, then additional fees to "obtain a permit to purchase" (NJ for one example) then IF carry is allowed, fees and costs of said permit(s) . I believe a case can easily be made that such a system is imposing an unreasonable burden on folks "just barely getting by " now in this economy? Clearly this infringes on the Rights of lower income folks (many of which are minorities) IF you just can't afford to buy the handgun AND pay the costs and fees, you cannot exercise your RIGHTS? An easy way to discriminate against these folks is to simply make the fees higher and renew mandatory with high fees on an annual basis.

I believe that this IS where the "forced training" etc. will hit the proverbial legal road block, especially IF the states cannot prove that training IS something that is "needed for the safety of it's citizens"...... thoughts?
 
#130 ·
Pennsylvania.
No Written Test.
No Oral Test.
No Classes.
No Range Qualification.
No "NO FIREARMS!" signs everywhere.
No Blood Running In The Streets.
No Accidental or Negligent Discharges happening everywhere & everyday.

The County Sheriff suggests that citizens seek qualified, professional, training. Many DO. Others ask a friend, relative, or family member to give them basic firearm and safety instruction.

Personal Adult Responsibility
- It seems to work just fine for Pennsylvania. :yup:
 
#134 ·
Amazing isn't it?
 
#131 ·
So, if what you say is true, then the state of Texas law against OC should have been struck down with these rulings.

That cannot happen (either way ) unless and until it is challenged in Fed court based on those SCOTUS rulings. Laws don't generally just "Vanish" due to rulings they must be challenged.

Would it hold up if so challenged? Honestly I would have to figure , that is doubtful as since one clearly has the right to "keep and Bear arms" and for individual self defense per the 2nd, regulation of "arms" outside the house to much of an extent would be a clear violation (IMO at least) . A RIGHT to bear arms is not limited to one's home or vehicle in other words, Texas by seeming to limit that for most (who don't have a CCW) could be argued to violate both rulings IMO ; depending on how it is argued.
 
#135 ·
A snippet from the PFOA, a Pennsylvania Forum

SO! not five min. ago, I inserted a live mag into my Wilson Combat CQB with the slide locked while inside my apartment. I then continued to rack the slide back to load the firearm, as I do once or twice DAILY before I re-holster. My finger was NOT NEAR THE TRIGGER! As I released the slide, I was greeted with thunderous boom as my 1911 fired a round through my bed and several other objects, into the floor.

Of course its not a indicative of what happens on a regular basis, and this could happen anywhere in the CONUS, however, it could be a training issue.

Or perhaps this could be cut back on
Texas man injured two people and himself after he accidentally fired his handgun Monday night while standing on line at a Walmart store, police said.
MyFoxDFW.com reported that the suspect, who was not identified, accidentally fired his gun while he reached into his wallet at the Dallas-area store. The bullet hit the man in the buttock and shattered on the ground. Fragments hit a child in the leg and a woman in the foot, the report said.

Dallas News | myFOXdfw.com
The suspect, who has a concealed handgun license, apparently panicked and took off running, but was soon caught by police.
He faces evasion charges and injury to a child.
Click for more from MyFoxDFW.com
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Read more: Texas man accidentally fires gun in Walmart, police say | Fox News
 
#148 ·
...
Texas man injured two people and himself after he accidentally fired his handgun Monday night while standing on line at a Walmart store, police said.
MyFoxDFW.com reported that the suspect, who was not identified, accidentally fired his gun while he reached into his wallet at the Dallas-area store. The bullet hit the man in the buttock and shattered on the ground. Fragments hit a child in the leg and a woman in the foot, the report said.

Dallas News | myFOXdfw.com
The suspect, who has a concealed handgun license, apparently panicked and took off running, but was soon caught by police.
He faces evasion charges and injury to a child.
...
I thought that the Great State of Texas "required training" before issuing a "concealed handgun license," apparently it didn't help.

Thank you for making the point of the OP regarding the idea that mandated training before issuance of a ccw does NOT enhance public safety.

Ken
 
#137 ·
Heres another example of incompetant people who are killing us

The accidental firing of a handgun in the Lake City Walmart Friday night led to the arrest of the gun's owner, Lake City Police Capt. John Blanchard IV reported.

L.J. Johnson, 59, of 237 Campus Place, was charged with culpable negligence and improper exhibition of a firearm for the incident that happened about 10:28 p.m. at the store on U.S. 90.


Blanchard said Johnson had a concealed weapon and holster that fell to the floor from its place of concealment, causing the gun to fire.

The immediate and surrounding areas were searched for evidence of where the bullet had traveled. No one was injured.

Johnson was jailed with bond set at $2,000, Blanchard reported.
 
#141 ·
I did not post it for time purposes, as that's irrelevant. I'm sure I could find one that happened very recently. But the point is, there are too many untrained and uneducated people joining the group that have no background with firearms, and these types of incidents are unnecessary, hurt us all in the public eye, and endanger those around us.

Furthermore, while I concede that posting all the accidents( and there are many) does not give any conclusive evidence that training would eliminate these issues, I feel that they demonstrate a serious issue that needs addressing in our firearms community, and hence my opinion that if you are going to be among the public with a CDW, then training in the proper use and handling with respect to proper holster selection and other issues unique to what we do be required.
 
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#143 ·
I hear what you are saying but you don't want to go down the road of accidents. I betcha I can find more with folks that have had "training" than folks that have had zero. And I am going by what some folks considered being trained:former LE, former military, CCP class.......How do you know this gentleman has never been trained?
 
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#142 ·
POINT BLANK: Guns and Violence in America

I just checked POINT BLANK: Guns and Violence in America for mention of training. This book is 500+ pages long and is packed with data and statistics. I could find no mention of the effects of training with regard to concealed carry.

Edited to add: There is some evidence that hunters who have attended a hunter safety course are less likely to be involved in hunting accidents.
 
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