Request for DHS troops in Chicago

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Originally Posted by mbguy29577

Wouldn't it easier to simply relax gun laws, allow all non-criminals to arm themselves and see how that goes.

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Just to point out an obvious problem with this approach--- the BG always has the advantage. The name of the game is
getting them off the street for anything and everything you can lay on them. As Secret Spuk pointed out here in another
thread the success of NYC in reducing crime came from the epiphany that most crime was done by the same small number
of individuals--- and then going after them with special task forces.

So, while I'm not saying good people should not be armed, let's look at just one example from the news today
of how that doesn't assure much. Military's deadliest sniper killed on gun range of resort near Glen Rose | Breaking News ...

Although this may appear as a retaliatory hit, other news papers have reported a second murder (earlier) in the same
community.

Also, a Dallas area DA was murdered on the court house grounds last week. He was armed. He was ambushed
and no one has yet been caught.

Being armed is OK, it will help in many situations, but like owning a fire extinguisher and having fire alarms, it is no guarantee that your house won't burn down.

Chicago's crime problem is much more complex than the facile answer that arming everyone would reduce the murder rate.

Many people in NYC weren't happy when the late Mayor Koch and past mayor Giuliani dished out some very strong
medicine to the criminal element, but it paid off in the long run.

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Originally Posted by Scramble4a5

Really? Surely you are aware that Mr. Capone and his crew were not model citizens. In 1933 Chicago had one of the top three murder rates in the country. Nothing has changed.

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Absolutely. The Chicago gangs are why we have a National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) banning the private ownership of fully automatic weapons and other, then, gang preferred weapons.

National Firearms Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The 1968 Gun Control Act (GCA) gave us the ATF form 4473, and importation bans of guns that the Executive branch found "offensive" under the guise of "Not for Sporting Use". The first real infringement upon the 2nd Amendment's reason for being....protection from a tyrannous government.

Gun Control Act of 1968 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Brady Act) of 1993 gave us background checks as a way to "prevent handgun violence".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_H...Prevention_Act

With the sunset of the original Feinstein assualt weapons ban and magazine limitation, those three acts that are left in force are the basis of most all the restrictions of the 2nd Amendment by the Feds. You poor ******** in California, New York, Illinois, and other North Eastern states have your own local problems!

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Originally Posted by Scramble4a5

Really? Surely you are aware that Mr. Capone and his crew were not model citizens. In 1933 Chicago had one of the top three murder rates in the country. Nothing has changed.

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Capone's activities were based on prohibition, smuggling, prostitution and general tax evasion. His thugs didnt stand on street corners shooting at people who wore their hats sideways or the wrong colored clothes. Today's Chicago gangs dont give a rats butt about who they kill, look at 'em wrong or walk on their sidewalk is all the reason they need to kill inocent people. Just sayin'.

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Originally Posted by TX expat

No. No. No. You can't disarm the public by allowing them more access to guns! Remember, it's not a crime problem, or a drug problem, or a gang problem; it's a GUN problem.

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^^^^^How dare you^^^^^^^^^^^^^

insinuate that the social engineers know not what they do.
That would be like saying the uneducated masses would be able to take care of themselves, and there would be no need for the nanny state

I found this scholarly article about the causes of violence. It is of course based on fact and data, as in "science", as opposed to emotions and fear:



INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SCIENCES
VOL 1 ISSUE 2 JULY 2006
Property Crimes and Violence in United States:
An Analysis of the influence of Population density

Keith Harries[1]
University of Maryland
Baltimore County, USA


“By and large, the available evidence increasingly tends to suggest that most types of crime tend to increase in levels of occurrence with increasing population density. This relationship, however, is moderated by SES. A cluster of affluent high-rise apartments in Mumbai or New York may have high density, but will also have a high level of guardianship, thus inhibiting crime. On the other hand, a high density poverty area will incorporate in its lifestyle incentives for predatory behaviours and disincentives for guardianship, given the hazards associated with confronting criminals (on their turf) or witnessing criminal acts.+

Harries - Population density and crime - IJCJS vol 1 issue 2

Using short words, suitable for politicians, it shows that when people either can protect themselves or are protected, crimes of violence decrease. Removing the means of protection, along with cutting police budgets, allows (even encourages) crimes of violence to increase. "Crimes of violence", not just "gun crimes" or "gun violence". Removing all guns will decrease "gun violence" but not "crimes of violence".

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Originally Posted by Rcher

Just sayin'.

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Just sayin' wrongly, you should have added. Read history, it will set you free. If you don't think the gang related activity, then and now, is associated with turf wars, drug dealing and other associated crimes, then you have failed to understand what is really happening.

The CBS news last evening reported the clearance rate for murders in Chi Town is at 25%. Pretty good odds if you want to kill someone. Also those convicted seem to be getting paroled without much prison time. There are also about 25% less LEOs than needed because of budget restraints. Sounds like a mess. Glad I don't have to live there.

Living 90 miles from Chicago in Milwaukee some of us are worried about some spill-over. Every time I drive through a drug & gang infested area of my city I see many cars (all luxury vehicles) parked & driving there with Illinois plates. If they built a fence around Chicago I wouldn't be one to complain. To top that off we have a do-nothing mayor who is very anti-gun. Thank God we have a Milwaukee County Sheriff, David Clarke, who realizes that citizens will have to defend themselves & also realizes that when seconds count the police are only minutes away. Our Police Chief has to follow the line of his political masters.

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Originally Posted by Dennis1209

They're making their own bed, let them sleep in their own cesspool.

I'd bet ole Al Capone wished he could legislate away his opposition?

Think the ones legislating all this anti-2nd Amendment B.S. don't have armed security or a carry permit?

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I have heard more than one politician using armed security reason that, due to their higher profile (than us commoners, I presume) they are a more likely target. I see an element of truth to that reasoning...up to a point. A politician being shot/killed will make the news in larger print than one-of-us-commoners would make if shot. So, the rest of us are relegated to gun-free zones where mass shootings take place (Aurora, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, et al) to make the same size printed headlines as one politician being shot would make.

As a side note: Is Piers Morgan correct in name calling? His seemingly fave phrase appears to be, "You are a stupid, stupid man," when guests on his show have proposed bringing police with guns into schools or arming some teachers, even though current laws regarding guns on campuses have been PROVEN ineffective.
-sorry, I digress, but this "gentleman" bugs me. In fact, I hate that arrogant buffoon as a ...news journalist? ...talk show host? What exactly IS his job function called?

Jackster

I think teachers with CC permits would be the very best solution IF they were not required to tell ANYONE they choose to carry, no one else know who is armed, no chance of anything "leaking" to the wrong folks. When some nut wants to shoot up a school they have to deal with WHO IS armed and where are they all at. I believe this would end 99% of anyone even thinking of mass school shootings

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Originally Posted by Chorizo

Just sayin' wrongly, you should have added. Read history, it will set you free. If you don't think the gang related activity, then and now, is associated with turf wars, drug dealing and other associated crimes, then you have failed to understand what is really happening.

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Precisely. Well stated. Certainly some innocents get killed, much like in Capone's days, but the majority of slayings involve gang bangers and their hangers-on.

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Originally Posted by velo99

Saw on Fox news our hero Jesse.Jackson & the families of the latest round of 157 shootings & homicides are asking Obama to deploy SHAWN troops to Chicago. Would this action not require a declaration of martial law ? Wonder how Rahm would like this ?

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Jessee Jackson :rofl:

The state of Chicago (also referred to as Illinois by outsiders) is about to join the ranks of the other 49 states.

HB0997

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Synopsis As Introduced
Creates the Family and Personal Protection Act. Provides that the Department of State Police shall issue a license to a person to: (1) carry a loaded or unloaded handgun on or about his or her person, concealed or otherwise; (2) keep or carry a loaded or unloaded handgun on or about his or her person when in a vehicle; and (3) keep a loaded or unloaded handgun openly or concealed in a vehicle. Prohibits the carrying of the handgun in certain locations. Provides that the license shall be issued by the Department of State Police within 30 days of receipt of a completed application and shall be valid throughout the State for a period of 5 years from the date of issuance.

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Where's Paul Kersey when ya need him?

I believe that the DHS will eventually become a national police force.