Request for DHS troops in Chicago
This is a discussion on Request for DHS troops in Chicago within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by mbguy29577
Wouldn't it easier to simply relax gun laws, allow all non-criminals to arm themselves and see how that goes.
Just to ...
February 3rd, 2013 10:20 AM
Just to point out an obvious problem with this approach--- the BG always has the advantage. The name of the game is
Originally Posted by mbguy29577
getting them off the street for anything and everything you can lay on them. As Secret Spuk pointed out here in another
thread the success of NYC in reducing crime came from the epiphany that most crime was done by the same small number
of individuals--- and then going after them with special task forces.
So, while I'm not saying good people should not be armed, let's look at just one example from the news today
of how that doesn't assure much. Military's deadliest sniper killed on gun range of resort near Glen Rose | Breaking News ...
Although this may appear as a retaliatory hit, other news papers have reported a second murder (earlier) in the same
Also, a Dallas area DA was murdered on the court house grounds last week. He was armed. He was ambushed
and no one has yet been caught.
Being armed is OK, it will help in many situations, but like owning a fire extinguisher and having fire alarms, it is no guarantee that your house won't burn down.
Chicago's crime problem is much more complex than the facile answer that arming everyone would reduce the murder rate.
Many people in NYC weren't happy when the late Mayor Koch and past mayor Giuliani dished out some very strong
medicine to the criminal element, but it paid off in the long run.
If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
February 3rd, 2013 10:23 AM
Absolutely. The Chicago gangs are why we have a National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) banning the private ownership of fully automatic weapons and other, then, gang preferred weapons.
Originally Posted by Scramble4a5
National Firearms Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The 1968 Gun Control Act (GCA) gave us the ATF form 4473, and importation bans of guns that the Executive branch found "offensive" under the guise of "Not for Sporting Use". The first real infringement upon the 2nd Amendment's reason for being....protection from a tyrannous government.
Gun Control Act of 1968 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Brady Act) of 1993 gave us background checks as a way to "prevent handgun violence".
With the sunset of the original Feinstein assualt weapons ban and magazine limitation, those three acts that are left in force are the basis of most all the restrictions of the 2nd Amendment by the Feds. You poor ******** in California, New York, Illinois, and other North Eastern states have your own local problems!
February 3rd, 2013 10:30 AM
Capone's activities were based on prohibition, smuggling, prostitution and general tax evasion. His thugs didnt stand on street corners shooting at people who wore their hats sideways or the wrong colored clothes. Today's Chicago gangs dont give a rats butt about who they kill, look at 'em wrong or walk on their sidewalk is all the reason they need to kill inocent people. Just sayin'.
Originally Posted by Scramble4a5
"Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981
February 3rd, 2013 10:32 AM
Originally Posted by TX expat
^^^^^How dare you^^^^^^^^^^^^^
insinuate that the social engineers know not what they do.
That would be like saying the uneducated masses would be able to take care of themselves, and there would be no need for the nanny state
I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."
M&Pc .357SIG, 2340Sigpro .357SIG
February 3rd, 2013 10:46 AM
I found this scholarly article about the causes of violence. It is of course based on fact and data, as in "science", as opposed to emotions and fear:
INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SCIENCES
VOL 1 ISSUE 2 JULY 2006
Property Crimes and Violence in United States:
An Analysis of the influence of Population density
University of Maryland
Baltimore County, USA
“By and large, the available evidence increasingly tends to suggest that most types of crime tend to increase in levels of occurrence with increasing population density. This relationship, however, is moderated by SES. A cluster of affluent high-rise apartments in Mumbai or New York may have high density, but will also have a high level of guardianship, thus inhibiting crime. On the other hand, a high density poverty area will incorporate in its lifestyle incentives for predatory behaviours and disincentives for guardianship, given the hazards associated with confronting criminals (on their turf) or witnessing criminal acts.+
Harries - Population density and crime - IJCJS vol 1 issue 2
Using short words, suitable for politicians, it shows that when people either can protect themselves or are protected, crimes of violence decrease. Removing the means of protection, along with cutting police budgets, allows (even encourages) crimes of violence to increase. "Crimes of violence", not just "gun crimes" or "gun violence". Removing all guns will decrease "gun violence" but not "crimes of violence".
February 3rd, 2013 10:49 AM
Just sayin' wrongly, you should have added. Read history, it will set you free. If you don't think the gang related activity, then and now, is associated with turf wars, drug dealing and other associated crimes, then you have failed to understand what is really happening.
Originally Posted by Rcher
February 3rd, 2013 11:00 AM
The CBS news last evening reported the clearance rate for murders in Chi Town is at 25%. Pretty good odds if you want to kill someone. Also those convicted seem to be getting paroled without much prison time. There are also about 25% less LEOs than needed because of budget restraints. Sounds like a mess. Glad I don't have to live there.
I shoot with a pistol and a Canon. We must all hang together amigos, or we will all hang separately. NRA life member.
February 3rd, 2013 11:14 AM
Living 90 miles from Chicago in Milwaukee some of us are worried about some spill-over. Every time I drive through a drug & gang infested area of my city I see many cars (all luxury vehicles) parked & driving there with Illinois plates. If they built a fence around Chicago I wouldn't be one to complain. To top that off we have a do-nothing mayor who is very anti-gun. Thank God we have a Milwaukee County Sheriff, David Clarke, who realizes that citizens will have to defend themselves & also realizes that when seconds count the police are only minutes away. Our Police Chief has to follow the line of his political masters.
USN Submarine & UDT/SEAL Veteran
1SG, US Army Retired - Airborne Infantry All the Way!
Retired PI/Armed Security
February 3rd, 2013 11:20 AM
I have heard more than one politician using armed security reason that, due to their higher profile (than us commoners, I presume) they are a more likely target. I see an element of truth to that reasoning...up to a point. A politician being shot/killed will make the news in larger print than one-of-us-commoners would make if shot. So, the rest of us are relegated to gun-free zones where mass shootings take place (Aurora, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook, et al) to make the same size printed headlines as one politician being shot would make.
Originally Posted by Dennis1209
As a side note: Is Piers Morgan correct in name calling? His seemingly fave phrase appears to be, "You are a stupid, stupid man," when guests on his show have proposed bringing police with guns into schools or arming some teachers, even though current laws regarding guns on campuses have been PROVEN ineffective.
-sorry, I digress, but this "gentleman" bugs me. In fact, I hate that arrogant buffoon as a ...news journalist? ...talk show host? What exactly IS his job function called?
Last edited by Jackster; February 3rd, 2013 at 03:35 PM.
February 3rd, 2013 02:30 PM
I think teachers with CC permits would be the very best solution IF they were not required to tell ANYONE they choose to carry, no one else know who is armed, no chance of anything "leaking" to the wrong folks. When some nut wants to shoot up a school they have to deal with WHO IS armed and where are they all at. I believe this would end 99% of anyone even thinking of mass school shootings
February 3rd, 2013 02:39 PM
Precisely. Well stated. Certainly some innocents get killed, much like in Capone's days, but the majority of slayings involve gang bangers and their hangers-on.
Originally Posted by Chorizo
February 3rd, 2013 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by velo99
If you can read this, thank a teacher. Because it's in English, thank a vet
February 3rd, 2013 04:20 PM
The state of Chicago (also referred to as Illinois by outsiders) is about to join the ranks of the other 49 states.
Synopsis As Introduced
Creates the Family and Personal Protection Act. Provides that the Department of State Police shall issue a license to a person to: (1) carry a loaded or unloaded handgun on or about his or her person, concealed or otherwise; (2) keep or carry a loaded or unloaded handgun on or about his or her person when in a vehicle; and (3) keep a loaded or unloaded handgun openly or concealed in a vehicle. Prohibits the carrying of the handgun in certain locations. Provides that the license shall be issued by the Department of State Police within 30 days of receipt of a completed application and shall be valid throughout the State for a period of 5 years from the date of issuance.
"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
- George Washington
February 3rd, 2013 04:44 PM
Where's Paul Kersey when ya need him?
February 3rd, 2013 04:54 PM
I believe that the DHS will eventually become a national police force.
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