Carrying on Campus
This is a discussion on Carrying on Campus within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I drop my daughter off at the local college for classes. I don't get out of the car, and I don't enter any structures. According ...
October 29th, 2006 08:21 AM
Carrying on Campus
I drop my daughter off at the local college for classes. I don't get out of the car, and I don't enter any structures. According to the CCW class instructor, that is perfectly legal by Texas state law.
This summer the university put up signs at some entrances, stating in official sounding terms "concealed handguns are prohibited".
Not wanting to take a chance on getting in trouble, I checked the state web site. The law had not changed, but the signs still had me worried that maybe there was some local ordinance that I didn't know about. So I called the University Welcome Center for clarification.
I had the feeling this could be awkward, and tried to express my questions as professional as possible. Example, "Could you please direct me to the department that has information regarding firearm restrictions on campus". The receptionist presumed she was the authority and just proclaimed. "Firearms are not allowed on campus sir", and no longer seemed as friendly.
In order to get to the next person who might really know the regulations, I had to explain in a little more detail. This got me transferred to 3 more people, all with the same answer and shocked expressions. The last person, presumably with the most authority, was the longest conversation, as I explained what the CCW instructor had told us, and even read the state law from the handbook. I was told point blank that the thoroughfares where they passed through campus were private property, and if I were stopped while dropping my daughter off, I would be arrested.
I asked where I could get official information on the regulations. I explained that the CCW instructors were teaching it was permissible according to state law, and they should be notified. This prompted an almost violent response, and he demanded both my name and the name of the instructor.
Thankfully I had called from work, so caller ID didn't identify me personally. I respectfully bid him a good day, and ended the conversation with out identifying either myself or the instructor.
In disbelief, I called the instructor to tell him about the new signs, and the results of the conversation. He immediately called the campus police department. (I should have started there I guess) Who assured him the laws have not changed. Dropping someone off is perfectly legal. State law dictates, just don't go into a building with your firearm.
Just goes to show you the prevailing fear. Not one person in the welcome center knew the law or any regulation. All they knew is guns are obviously not allowed, and I must be some kind of freak to even have to ask.
October 29th, 2006 09:36 AM
I would think that if this is a campus/college rule or regulation, it would only apply to students not visitors. IANAL or a resident of TX, but unless prohibited by state law, they would need a 30.06 sign properly posted.
Mike in VA
October 29th, 2006 09:54 AM
MN Colleges and Univ can not keep a non employee or non student from carring on campus. Even students and employees could carry but could get fired or kicked out of school. The school does not make up laws and can only influence those they have power over.
Good job asking
"If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.
October 29th, 2006 10:09 AM
Have you thought about writing a letter to the Welcome Center to inform them that it is in fact legal to carry "through" campus and if they have any further questions then you can direct them to the relevant section of law and give them the phone number and contact person at campus police? Might make someone else's life a bit easier at some point if they were educated about it.
Originally Posted by Geo2020
October 29th, 2006 10:28 AM
As for the caller ID not showing who you were, so what if it said your name or number. You were asking questions. That's something that even on a campus they should be used to.. Besides you could have violated your employers use of phone policy .
The only person that I really don't want to know that I carry is the BG/BGs if I ever have to use my weapon, others knowing (to me anyway) are a NON factor..
October 29th, 2006 10:43 AM
Is this a public or private college? If it is a private college and they have posted such signs you could theoretically be arrested for criminal trespass, but that might be a reach.
The problem is that to push this any further you might have to reveal your identity as anonymous letters wouldn't yield much response.
You could send an unsigned letter with a copy of the law to the welcome center staff and include the fact that you will take appropriate legal action against anyone that interferes with your rights including the federal civil rights criminal charges.
Also include the fact that you called seeking clarification and that you were screamed at and felt threatened by the response. Tell them you are in fear of giving your name due to fear that your daughter would suffer reprisals.
Call the campus police yourself just for clarification. Not to sound snide, but I think that they would know more about the law and its enforcement than a student worker at the welcome center.
October 29th, 2006 10:50 AM
I didn't start the call with the intent of remaining anonymous. The manner in which I was being asked to identify myself (and the instructor), made me think there was going to be some follow up.
Originally Posted by CraigJS
As I hadn't expected a confrontational reaction, not getting the instructor in hot water was my immediate concern.
As far as phone policy at work... Do you mean because of the subject of the call? or that I should ensure I am allowed to make personal calls on company phones?
The latter was never in question for me.
October 29th, 2006 11:07 AM
Originally Posted by CombatEffective
It is a public college. Also I do not intend to push it any farther at all. I only wanted to find out if I needed to leave my firearm at home the days I was dropping off my kid.
Calling the campus police is the best answer no doubt, I just didn't know it at the time.
October 29th, 2006 11:29 AM
Once again, I didn't mean it to sound snide.
Originally Posted by Geo2020
Public would mean they have to follow the state law as it is public property and not private property. If it were private property they could bar you from having a weapon there.
October 29th, 2006 11:35 AM
Yeah, they're nuts. Student receptionists don't do traffic stops anyway, so I really wouldn't care what they think or expect them to be informed.
I made a similar call to TAMU's UPD recently, because university regulations actually make a stated blanket exception for LEO's and CCW holders, which conflicts with state law, and could lead to a CCW thinking it's legal to carry into a building (which it's not). The dispatcher I spoke with was actually familiar with the law, and told me it was perfectly legal to carry on campus as long as I didn't go into any of the buildings.
I've been trying to find out who to contact about changing the wording in the regs to be more accurate. And in the process, I fully expect to come across more than a few people who are as ignorant as the doofuses you spoke to.
October 29th, 2006 12:10 PM
Reminds me of airline employees
The incident described is directly parallel with the experiences many people have when flying with guns. The TSA and the airlines put out their regulations and rules in writing, but the airline employees who take tickets and baggage often don't understand the rules, and give bad information to passengers.
I have noticed that some people who deal with the public and answer questions for the public are reluctant to admit that they don't know an answer. They would rather make something up and pretend they know, rather than calling the real authority to get a good answer. There is something about human nature going on here, I guess.
October 29th, 2006 12:21 PM
In South Carolina (it may differ in your state) the applicable regulations are as follows:
SECTION 16-23-420. Carrying or displaying firearms in public buildings or areas adjacent thereto.
(A) It is unlawful for a person to possess a firearm of any kind on any premises or property owned, operated, or controlled by a private or public school, college, university, technical college, other post-secondary institution, or in any publicly-owned building, without the express permission of the authorities in charge of the premises or property.
(B) It is unlawful for a person to enter the premises or property described in subsection (A) and to display, brandish, or threaten others with a firearm.
(C) A person who violates the provisions of this section is guilty of a felony and, upon conviction, must be fined not more than five thousand dollars or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
BUT! The applicable section for your situation is here:
E) For purposes of this section, the terms "premises" and "property" do not include state or locally owned or maintained roads, streets, or rights-of-way of them, running through or adjacent to premises or property owned, operated, or controlled by a private or public school, college, university, technical college, or other post-secondary institution, which are open full time to public vehicular traffic.
Again... this is state by state. So you need to research that part of the law in your state. I bet, from your earlier understanding, something like that exists in your state laws.
October 29th, 2006 01:49 PM
I have never had trouble flying with guns and ammo, but just in case I always go to the website of the ariline I'm usuing and print a copy of their policy and carry it with me to the airport.
Originally Posted by pogo2
I am on campus here in FLA 2 days a week for classes and I leave my guns at home. I bet that if they ever searched my car for some reason and found it, I would be kicked out, if not arrested. That means I have to make a 100 mile round trip unarmed.
I don't like it, but that's what I do.
When you've got 'em by the balls, their hearts & minds will follow. Semper Fi.
October 29th, 2006 03:56 PM
Carry Concealed & Don't Worry!!
I live in Ohio, a much more restrictive state than Texas, and what I find is that many businesses and private facilities are posted with the No Weapons Allowed Signage.
I take this stand - there are a couple choices - avoid the place, remove my weapon or go about my business without notifying anyone. I generally choose the later (exceptions for certain government facilities etc.). If you are driving on campus, not breaking any laws and then leaving - it is a non-issue! Stop worrying so much. If you are carrying concealed, no one need know that you are carrying. If for some reason you need to use your weapon while on/in one of these restricted places - chances are that the business owner would be happy to have someone stop the situation.
October 29th, 2006 04:18 PM
Don't know anything about TX, but in KY we have two organizations that we can call on to correct ignorant people and incorrect signs and statements. There will always be either ignorant and/or very biased people that try to impose their abhorrance and disgust with firearms on the rest of us. We have been verry successful with these organizations (KC3 & KFFI) to get these types of errors corrected.
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