A Well Regulated Militia.....

A Well Regulated Militia.....

This is a discussion on A Well Regulated Militia..... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think it's worth making a point about this phrasing in the Second Amendment. Up until the beginning of the 20th century, "regulation" remained a ...

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Thread: A Well Regulated Militia.....

  1. #1
    Member Array Blindeye's Avatar
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    A Well Regulated Militia.....

    I think it's worth making a point about this phrasing in the Second Amendment.

    Up until the beginning of the 20th century, "regulation" remained a martial term.

    Troops were kept regulated (colonial writers/officers spoke frequently about regulating their men),
    and rifle makers always referred to the regulation of the barrels of what they made.

    It meant to shoot with accuracy, or to hit something with accuracy.

    It was still used this way up until (and during) the Civil War, but after that began to fall into disuse.
    About this same time it was used more and more by clock and pocket watchmakers to refer to the accuracy of their
    time pieces.

    The term "Regulators" was a pun on both meanings, as they were rowdy men hired (or self appointed) to shoot
    bad guys (and sheep ranchers!)....regulated because they could hit what they aimed at, and keeping things running like
    a clock.

    Double gun makers still "regulate" their firearms of course, but it's mainly a watchmakers term term now
    (mechanical watches are still regulated).

    I don't hear this definition used much, and nowadays regulate means to control or restrict.
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    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    It's always been a problem applying modern definitions to old documents. People do it all the time with the bible. Translated into english,(Old English)in the 1500s using the closest english word they had for the translation, hence,it is not really accurate. Same with the bill of rights and the Constitution. you are right, regulated when written in that time,had a different meaning than its common definition today. This is only an opportunity for those wanting to be dishonest, to fool the "usefull idiots" when it suits their political agenda.
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    I also have a hard time with people who think the "Militia" means the "Military". We have the Active Duty Military, the Reserves & the National Guard. The Militia is all of the rest of the able-bodied citizens. Militia does not mean the National Guard as some would have you believe.

    The 2nd Amendment speaks of a "well regulated militia". This very simply means a well trained citizenry. It's taken for granted the any arm of the Military will be "well regulated" or "well trained" in modern language. This is the reason many 2A supporters agree with training requirements some states have. There has to be a fine point between "not infringed" & "well regulated". I can see both sides to the argument what the 2A actually means.
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    Member Array rutcrazed's Avatar
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    Jeez, no wonder we are in so much trouble......now let the beatings begin.
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    Senior Member Array NETim's Avatar
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    Member Array Blindeye's Avatar
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    NETim,

    I read both of those articles, and while well written, they don't explain the term "well regulated".

    I got interested in this bit of minutiae when I started playing at gunsmithing, and acquired a few antique firearms.
    The men who made these pieces were sometimes literate, and they wrote about "regulating" the rifle.
    That lead to reading about the men who shot these rifles, and the tactics they employed.

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

    I read it this way: Armed citizens who protect the state must be skilled. The people shall have a right to keep and carry weapons.

    It becomes a lot more clear.
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    Ex Member Array gregnsc's Avatar
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    Our state senate says they won't enforce any federal gun laws that passes.They say we need our firearms because we are an unorganized militia.Sounds good to me
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    Senior Member Array nathanjns's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Blindeye;2618816]
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed
    I read it this way: Armed citizens who protect the state must be skilled. The people shall have a right to keep and carry weapons.


    I think the term "free State" is very important also. To me, all of this means that the purpose of the citizenry having the right to bear arms is to ensure their ability to resist an over-reaching and oppressive federal government. I think this is precisely what the founders intended to accomplish with the 2A.

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    The problem is that people interpret the Amendment the way that they want to. They have no interest in understanding the intentions of the Founding Fathers.

    "A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms."
    - Richard Henry Lee ~ Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer (1788) at 169

    "No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
    - Thomas Jefferson ~ Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950]

    "That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..."
    - Samuel Adams ~ Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Peirce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850. 2, col. 2.

    "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."

    - James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244

    "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few public officials."

    - George Mason ~ 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426
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    Senior Member Array velo99's Avatar
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    In 1776 there was no standing army. The entire war was fought by militias. By 1812 the USA had an actual army and navy. I am nor sure about the actual dates but the evidence is conclusive.
    We have different gifts,according to the grace given to each of us.

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    Member Array krisspy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by velo99 View Post
    In 1776 there was no standing army. The entire war was fought by militias.
    That's not correct. The Continental Army was created by an act of the Continental Congress on June 14, 1775. Militias certainly played a major role in the war effort, but a standing army did exist.

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    Member Array WillWork4Ammo's Avatar
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    The Federalist Papers No. 29 Concerning The Militia
    The Federalist Papers - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

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    Member Array rutcrazed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LBarraza View Post
    The Federalist Papers No. 29 Concerning The Militia
    The Federalist Papers - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
    Thanks LBarraza, Very good read...
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    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

    I read it as: Since the government must be armed and police the state to protect it, we must be armed in case the militia becomes tyrannical.
    "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain."
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    Senior Member Array NETim's Avatar
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    Guncite is a great resource:

    Meaning of the words in the Second Amendment
    Don't try to be fancy. Shoot for the center of mass. The world is full of decent people. Criminals we can do without. -- Jeff Cooper (1920–2006)

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