Concealed Carry on Busses and Crowded Trains

Concealed Carry on Busses and Crowded Trains

This is a discussion on Concealed Carry on Busses and Crowded Trains within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am scratching my head on this one. As many may know, the Federal Appeals Court has ruled Illinois' absolute ban on concealed carry is ...

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Thread: Concealed Carry on Busses and Crowded Trains

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    Senior Member Array Gaius's Avatar
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    Concealed Carry on Busses and Crowded Trains

    I am scratching my head on this one. As many may know, the Federal Appeals Court has ruled Illinois' absolute ban on concealed carry is unconstitutional. Illinois has until June 9 to remedy this. One of the discussions as to establishing prohibited areas is to ban CCW on crowded subways and busses especially in Chicago. Our side argues that many who take public transportation are of less economic status than others and this is a penalty for them. The antis argue that the risk of hitting innocent passengers on very crowded subway and bus cars is too high to allow for concealed carry in that environment. Putting aside the abstract theories, I have to admit that the antis may have a valid point. We know that the citizen in a SD shooting is responsible for every shot fired, and may be liable for hitting an innocent party, but that may not be a lot of comfort for the innocent party who is shot. What say you all?
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    I wouldn't want to be on a crowded bus or subway when anyone opens fire for any reason, be it a BG holding his gun sideways or a Navy Seal. No good will come from it.

    Attaching an economic status to public transportation is a moot point, but my bigger concern would be what does one do with a CW before boarding PT, how would one provide for personal defense after arriving at one's destination? That will place limits on the level of self-protection one has.
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    I'm sure the BG all just toss their own weapons before boarding PT........ more guns = less crime which seems Chicago avoids real facts "like the plague" anyway. "Gun control" laws always punish lower income and minorities, those pushing for them have an entire staff of well armed security force- coincidence? LOL

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    Senior Member Array tmoore912's Avatar
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    Atlanta doesn't have a epidemic of GWCL holders shooting or killing innocent people on public transportation. And we don't have a training requirement to get a carry license. Latest numbers indicate Ga. has 650,000+/- GWCL holders out of a 9 Million adult population.

    It's called personal responsibility. (I do understand it's very hard for those on the Left in Chicago land to understand that concept)

    It took our State organization (GeorgiaCarry.org) years to get rid of the Jim Crow "Public Gathering" law out of our carry laws, so that we could carry near a bus stop or into the non-secure areas of Hartsfield–Jackson Atlanta International Airport.

    ETA: I want to wish you good luck with your fight to get your rights back in Illinois.
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    Member Array latentcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I wouldn't want to be on a crowded bus or subway when anyone opens fire for any reason, be it a BG holding his gun sideways or a Navy Seal. No good will come from it.

    Attaching an economic status to public transportation is a moot point, but my bigger concern would be what does one do with a CW before boarding PT, how would one provide for personal defense after arriving at one's destination? That will place limits on the level of self-protection one has.
    Maybe just ask that no one use their weapon in those crowded areas and things will be ok. How many weapons were on the average subway car in Chicago or New York this morning anyway. Would the few permitted weapons really make a difference?
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    "May be liable" is a much more attractive potentiality for me than unarmed and dead or injured.
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    Re: Concealed Carry on Busses and Crowded Trains

    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I wouldn't want to be on a crowded bus or subway when anyone opens fire for any reason, be it a BG holding his gun sideways or a Navy Seal. No good will come from it.
    Just because you have it, day in and day, doesn't mean you'll need it. What about late at night when only you and the bad guy are on the train?

    Its like people saying bars/restaurants should be off limits to people carrying. Because other people are drinking I can't carry while I eat my dinner?



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    Senior Member Array tmoore912's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    "May be liable" is a much more attractive potentiality for me than unarmed and dead or injured.
    Exactly!
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    Quote Originally Posted by latentcarry View Post
    Maybe just ask that no one use their weapon in those crowded areas and things will be ok. How many weapons were on the average subway car in Chicago or New York this morning anyway. Would the few permitted weapons really make a difference?
    I would bet half the people on those subways could not successfully pass a weapons search.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    Just because you have it, day in and day, doesn't mean you'll need it. What about late at night when only you and the bad guy are on the train?

    Its like people saying bars/restaurants should be off limits to people carrying. Because other people are drinking I can't carry while I eat my dinner?
    Did I say anywhere that I was opposed to the idea of CC on public transportation? No, I did not. Would you want to be on a crowded bus when shooting started? Would anyone? Didn't the OP specifically state on "crowded" public transportation, not "late at night when only you and the bad guy are on the train"?

    As I stated, assuming public transportation was off limits to CC, what does one do with one's weapon before/after utilizing the PT? By making CC off limits while on PT, maintaining personal protection is effectively banned after leaving it.

    Of course liability is a concern, just as it is in any shooting. The larger the crowd, the higher the risks of an innocent being hit. No rocket science there.

    And then you make the leap to a restaurant and drinking patrons, which wasn't mentioned in the OP's post. But what if . . . ?
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    VIP Member Array dawei's Avatar
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    I am going to do what I have to do to remain safe. The first rule of a gunfight, ANYWHERE; is to have a gun. When I use public transportation be it bus, or train/subway; I am armed ALWAYS.

    Do what you have to do to remain safe.
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    Thats why I don't live in a big city

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    By making CC off limits while on PT, maintaining personal protection is effectively banned after leaving it.
    Ding ding ding ding...we have a winner.

    A great many of the limitations put on CC or OC are not so much about the place, but about the fact that limiting carry in that place will effectively cause people not to be able to carry at all. Just as most the hoops and fees and delays are meant to discourage people from getting permits in the first place.
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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdprof View Post
    Ding ding ding ding...we have a winner.

    A great many of the limitations put on CC or OC are not so much about the place, but about the fact that limiting carry in that place will effectively cause people not to be able to carry at all. Just as most the hoops and fees and delays are meant to discourage people from getting permits in the first place.
    I believe the same thing about the long period of time....weeks and even months....between applying for one's cc permit and receiving it.

    Many states...populus states/counties....turn them around in a week or 2. There's no excuse for dragging it out for months, they are just trying to discourage people from applying.
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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    RE: the bus or subway, I see it the same way I see cc in a crowd or in a movie theater, or in a sports stadium....just like anywhere else, a permit holder has to use good judgement in when and where he or she can draw. And since I havent heard about people dropping like flies from legal gun carriers on buses, subways, stadiums, or crowds....like the Gabby Gifford shooting where the cc'er DID NOT shoot....it seems we are, overall, using pretty good judgement.
    sdprof and tmoore912 like this.
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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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