Dilemma: Can't carry while volunteering...

This is a discussion on Dilemma: Can't carry while volunteering... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So, I've been volunteering with our small, rural, volunteer fire dept for past year and a half – support role, not fire fighter – have ...

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Thread: Dilemma: Can't carry while volunteering...

  1. #1
    Member Array MountainAir's Avatar
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    Dilemma: Can't carry while volunteering...

    So, I've been volunteering with our small, rural, volunteer fire dept for past year and a half – support role, not fire fighter – have carried concealed since day one. Tonight I was given the new "No Firearms or Weapons" policy when I went to training. Took me totally by surprise. I did not think to do what I should have - get up and leave. I LOVE volunteering at the FD. My hubby says quit.

    Under Colorado law, their policies hold no legal weight and, if discovered, I would be trespassing if they asked me to leave and I did not. Although not legal or constitutional, IF I decide to continue to volunteer with them, I would not carry at the FD or during fire dept volunteer time at other locations.

    I have thought about first asking the Chief for a copy of the written policy (he forgot to give one to me). And then go in to talk to him face to face, (with my gun locked in my car gun vault). Politely ask for an explanation and reasoning, politely state my rights and beliefs, and turn in my resignation. I really don’t want to resign. I really like volunteering with the FD. But, this might be my stand-on-my-principles moment.

    Volunteering at another FD is not an option. This is my community. This is my FD. Help me out here guys, I’m struggling.

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    Array Mike1956's Avatar
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    I wouldn't disarm to volunteer my time and efforts.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    Member Array BelaOkmyx's Avatar
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    Being you are a lady and have the privilege of never having your body or personal effects inspected (except from afar! ) you might just get something really, really concealable and keep quiet. You aren't breaking any laws, and if perchance a fireman were to see you were carrying odds are you would get a wink and a nod.

    Never ask permission unless you have to. That's a good rule for life.

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    Senior Member Array rugergunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I wouldn't disarm to volunteer my time and efforts.
    Heard that! Me neither.
    I would rather die on my feet, than to live on my knees.

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    Member Array moonraker's Avatar
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    I think you've got a clear well thought out plan. Be open about your beliefs. I wouldn't mention that you have been carrying, rather, propose a logical explanation of why you should be able to. Who knows, you might be the one that changes the policy. The second outcome would be a "no" which simply leaves you in the spot you are now. At this point you've narrowed your choices down to two. Number one, follow the advice of BelaOkmyx and carry regardless of the code (imho a risky decision since claiming ignorance is no longer an option), or two, leave the FD behind and take your gun with you. Best of luck. Let us know how it goes!

  7. #6
    Member Array Takeem406's Avatar
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    Re: Dilemma: Can't carry while volunteering...

    I vollied for a few years.

    What are you doing for the department?

    I can tell you from a firefighting aspect and actually fighting fire I wouldn't even considering carrying a pistol. There's just no way especially if you have to pack up.

    Now running on medical calls for lift assist or something, yeah maybe especially if I was running errands and the pager goes off.

    I think I can't even legally carry in a fire station in Montana. Because it's a government building. The assistant fire chief for one of our mutual aid departments carries. He leaves his in the truck too when doing fire stuff.

    If theres any threat to us like suicidal activities or what not deputies are called to respond while we stage around the block.

    Man I miss it! Work has me so busy I have to take a break for a while.

    In God and Glock we Trust

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    Member Array ZOMBIEvs42's Avatar
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    if i were in that position, i would talk to the chief, it might be his policy. if he wont/cant do anything about it, he may be of the persuasion of the "i didnt see it, its not there" rule. if he wont budge then i would volunteer somewhere else. my .02
    weekend pre-apocolypse nomadic warrior, leather duster and all.

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    Member Array rangefinder's Avatar
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    I would not disarm. Speaking to the Chief about the subject is in essence a confession that you have been carrying. If I was the Chief I wouldn't hesitiate to ask the next volunteer time if you were carrying. Now a moral dilemma - to lie or not to lie.

    Since you are carrying concealed and the directive does not carry the weight of law I would continue to carry. If then discovered you have a decision to make.

    A local theater here has a bumper sticker green sign that says no firearms. When I'm in that theater I carry. As long as I properly carry concealed it'll never be noticed. What the staff and manager don't know in this case won't hurt me. The only time they should learn I carry is when I have to use my weapon for defense. Until then, none should be the wiser.
    Snub44, Anubis, PAPADALE1 and 3 others like this.
    USN Retired

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    Member Array MountainAir's Avatar
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    I appreciate you guys' responses.

    I agree with the Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell premise, as related to carrying, that is. But, I try to respect other's rights, even while they are not respecting mine. I try not to spend $ with businesses with gun buster signs, and I will not carry @ FD, knowing their new policy. I think gun owners have the obligation to go out of our way to respect others' opinions, as unconstitutional, wrong and ignorant as they are, to uphold our integrity as a group and as individuals.

    I will not mention that I have been carrying, although it has crossed my mind that perhaps the new policy is because someone saw me printing. More likely, I know, are the gun control measures making their way through our Colorado legislature right now and the recent shootings.

    @Takeem: I volunteer with the Fire Corp = fundraising events, taking drinks,snacks & lunch to the guys if they are out on a structure/wildland fire, making them dinner when they get back to the station, starting helping with finding grant funding. Was at the dept for 16 hour shifts, for 3 days straight, during a wildfire last summer. Anything to help my guys.

    I've started working on my resignation letter... I am so very sad.
    DubH00, PAPADALE1 and MrsHB like this.

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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...if I'm responsible enough to volunteer and serve...and the Great State of Texas says I'm responsible enough to carry...it's a package deal...take me as I am or get someone else to volunteer...I'm sad for you...I'd gladly volunteer to walk the halls at schools to keep our kids safe as a volunteering citizen...but it'd be a felony...and I'm highly trained and experienced to do so...we have so many things upside down in this country...and we're running dangerously low on common sense...

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    As an ex FD if your volunteer FD is that closed minded resign and turn your talents to another worthy organization. Many if not most will have no issue with your carrying.
    Aceoky likes this.
    " It is sad governments are chief'ed by the double tongues." quote Ten Bears Movie Outlaw Josie Wales

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    Ex Member Array gunslingergirl's Avatar
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    As a female and a former volunteer many years ago when I lived in Florida I would recommend you take some additional time to consider your position.

    When I was on the fire dept I didn't carry a gun. We didn't have any rules about it, or they never came up, but I never felt the need. I did usually have one in the car. I can't really think of a situation where I would need or want a gun during a fire or medical aid. I worked for the Chief, and I know he had a gun in his truck, but I'm sure nobody carried one.

    Personally I would say that unless you have a compelling reason, don't let your gun dictate your enjoyment of the occupation.

    You may however want to consider challenging the policy, possibly in the local media. You could potentially file a suit. The problem with prevailing I see is the public perception of firemen is they are not armed and don't need to be. Maybe you can just get the chief to give you permission. Though I understand you should not have to ASK for permission.

    (This makes me remember some video shot of the fire dept in Sarajevo. It shows this multi-story building fully involved at night, with embers falling everywhere and flames shooting to the sky. Pans to show a fire truck with bullet holes everywhere, and three men crouching with a hose. Suddenly the middle man stands up, raises an AK47 and lets off a burst of covering fire! Amazing video!)

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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...in the 70s, the Panthers would hide and shoot at our firemen after they responded to a false call...got so a patrolman went on every fire call for awhile...seems nothing is respected in this world as it ought to be...

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainAir View Post
    This is my FD. Help me out here guys, I’m struggling.
    If in your state it's not unlawful to ignore such signs, even if notified via a policy statement in a letter, then it's up to you. The ramifications are that you could be let go, and have that history behind you (if any learn of it). If that's no big thing, decide accordingly.

    Myself, in such a situation, I wouldn't disarm. The world is simply too unpredictable for that. It's not worth my very life, nor the lives of my loved ones. I'd either continue on, have a frank discussion with the chief, or resign.

    I think you're aware enough of the realities to be able to present a good case. It's merely policy. Policies can be altered in the face of reality, particularly for good cause. It's entirely likely the chief simply hasn't thought things through. Might be a good opportunity to get improved training for everyone, by partnering with the police/sheriff, on how to handle situations that are entirely likely to occur at some point. "Fire" Department doesn't hardly mean that fire's the only thing dealt with. Ugly situations can arise at any time, for anyone. And that's the whole point.
    Snub44, jerwin, Ransom and 1 others like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  16. #15
    Member Array filmtex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...if I'm responsible enough to volunteer and serve...and the Great State of Texas says I'm responsible enough to carry...it's a package deal...take me as I am or get someone else to volunteer...I'm sad for you...I'd gladly volunteer to walk the halls at schools to keep our kids safe as a volunteering citizen...but it'd be a felony...and I'm highly trained and experienced to do so...we have so many things upside down in this country...and we're running dangerously low on common sense...
    I couldn't agree more. Well put.

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