hand to hand?

This is a discussion on hand to hand? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This question, like so many others posted here, is subject to many variables. Whether you have formal hand to hand training or feel comfortable in ...

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Thread: hand to hand?

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    Member Array pilot101's Avatar
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    hand to hand?

    This question, like so many others posted here, is subject to many variables. Whether you have formal hand to hand training or feel comfortable in a scrap from experience, it occurs to me that CC changes choices and tactics. If confronted by an unarmed BG, and it becomes clear that no amount of talk will diffuse the situation. While it is possible that you face a butt kicking, your life is not threatened, what do you do?
    "You are guaranteed to miss 100% of the shots you don't take" -Wayne Gretzky

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    Senior Member Array Alex_C's Avatar
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    If someone physically attacks me then I am in reasonable fear for my life and will act accordingly. Just because someone is "unarmed" does not negate their ability to do great bodily harm, or to kill.

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    An old joke in the martial arts is either learn it or become a fast runner.

    I hold black belts in Kenpo Karate, GojuRyu Karate & Judo. None of those will defeat a gun unless the would be shooter comes into grabbing distance & you'd better be right the first time. None is much good if you're aging & slowed down considerably as in my case. For an avoidance of a butt kicking see the above, lol.
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    If someone puts their hands on me while I'm armed, it is life-threatening.
    "When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
    Tuco

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    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    I think along the same lines as Mike. IDK if they have a gun, a knife, a black belt, iron grip whatever.
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    just because you dont see a weapon, doesnt mean he dont have one!

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    Senior Member Array Alex_C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batcat View Post
    just because you dont see a weapon, doesnt mean he dont have one!
    Fists, elbows, knees and feet are all potentially deadly "weapons". Unless you're being attacked by a quadraplegic, but even then you run the risk of getting bitten.

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    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pilot101 View Post
    This question, like so many others posted here, is subject to many variables. Whether you have formal hand to hand training or feel comfortable in a scrap from experience, it occurs to me that CC changes choices and tactics. If confronted by an unarmed BG, and it becomes clear that no amount of talk will diffuse the situation. While it is possible that you face a butt kicking, your life is not threatened, what do you do?
    Always walk away if you can. Sometimes that's difficult to do when your woman has been insulted or something similar, but you should do it anyway. What do you do if walking away isn't an option? You act confident even if you're not. I don't mean arrogant, I mean confident. There's a difference. Keep your mouth shut and don't egg it on.

    Once the blows start, you end it quickly and violently (blows, chokes, knees, elbows, gouging, but not bullets). Your gun is only to be used when you can't walk away and you know you're going to lose your life if you don't shoot. A gun shouldn't be used to prevent a butt whuppin unless you are disabled or facing multiple attackers. From everything I have heard and read, using deadly force against an unarmed assailant is going to be tough to beat in court unless its a clear cut case, like you're physically disabled and can't defend yourself or you are facing multiple attackers.

    You really need to be familiar with the laws concerning deadly force in your state. You need a clear cut understanding of those laws ahead of time so you don't have to second guess yourself if that moment ever comes.

    When I was younger I got in quite a few fights because I would never, ever walk away and I would have preferred to get my butt kicked than accept disrespect as a matter of principle. Now that I carry, I would let someone say anything they want and would still walk away. If I'm ever faced with having to use deadly force, I don't want to have a prosecutor telling a jury about how I escalated the situation by running my mouth or getting in someone's face. Carrying a gun is a big responsibility and you need to check your ego.
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    VIP Member Array Easy8's Avatar
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    Chesafreak I agree with everything you said, Unfortunately I am over 60 an might have a 30 second fight window before I would have to take a break. Usually BG"s dont let you take a break. So my philosophy is be aware of my surroundings I dont yell back just keep walking if that does not work an someone is still approaching me I would look right at them an say stop go away keep repeating this loudly so other people hear they keep coming within 10 feet I draw and yell backup once, one more step an I shoot till they fall than call police + ambulance an lawyer. Too old to take chances one good punch could ruin the rest of my life or worse.

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    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
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    If you have never taken a well placed elbow to the face, it is very hard to describe the pain involved. Having experienced it first hand, if some one puts there hands on me then they are taking the risk and I will act accordingly. Since i have no magic eyeballs that tell me when someone is a master of the martial arts, I assume they are.
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    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    I plan to respond to a violent action on myself with a return of equal action, +1 level...

    Explanation...

    You attack me with hands or feet, you get the same, and possibly the knife depending on how big a boy you are (Roy D. Mercer voice there)...

    You attack with blunt object or knife you get the lead...

    If my wife or kids are involved you earn an instant bump-up the ladder to the lead...

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    addition to the above -- my dog!!! Pilot you must be a young guy, you'll learn hang in there.

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    Senior Member Array Chesafreak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy8 View Post
    Chesafreak I agree with everything you said, Unfortunately I am over 60 an might have a 30 second fight window before I would have to take a break. Usually BG"s dont let you take a break. So my philosophy is be aware of my surroundings I dont yell back just keep walking if that does not work an someone is still approaching me I would look right at them an say stop go away keep repeating this loudly so other people hear they keep coming within 10 feet I draw and yell backup once, one more step an I shoot till they fall than call police + ambulance an lawyer. Too old to take chances one good punch could ruin the rest of my life or worse.
    If I were in your shoes I would also do the same as you. At 44, I'm in the best shape of my life at 6'2", 245 solid lbs. I don't think I could get away with shooting first if facing a jury. If you're young enough and in good enough shape I can't see taking a life to prevent a black eye or bloody nose. I've had my share of those. I'm very sure that when I'm older and more fragile I will be more likely to draw than fight.

    When I was a kid I was tall and very skinny so I wasn't as imposing as I look now. I got picked on as a kid because the bullies thought that they could build their rep by picking on the tall skinny quiet kid. At my size and mean looks I don't get confronted like that anymore. I don't look like an easy mark. I have a look that says "I'll beat you to a bloody pulp and have fun doing it." although I'm really friendly. It's a defense mechanism built up from past experience from having lived in neighborhoods where I was a minority as well as 20 years in the military.
    "I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Member Array pilot101's Avatar
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    great advise everyone. know the law, diffuse, and defend. any worries about yoir weapon comming loose in a scuffle? also is this consideration when carrying stage one?
    "You are guaranteed to miss 100% of the shots you don't take" -Wayne Gretzky

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    I have trained in traditional in martial arts, weapons, knives etc, going back about 25 years. I have over the last 5-7 years started training in MMA, Kick boxing/Jiu jitsu, I am never going to be a professional fighter, not by any stretch, I am not the biggest guy in the world, but I keep myself fit and can disable the average person fairly quickly, but if given an option I will back down in a second. There is no ego involved especially when your armed. If for some unknown reason I did get into an altercation, I actually train to protect my weapons so they aren’t used against me. If necessary will take a couple of punches to avoid having to kill someone. As long as my weapons are protected then there is no reason to escalate it further. If I end up in a situation where my BUG is going to be taken from my gun and used against me, I can very quickly deploy my knife and end confrontation, but it wasn't me that escalated it at that point.
    The problem with shooting an unarmed person, even if they started it, your HIGHLY likely to spend a long time behind bars because while they started it, you escalated it well beyond what will be considered reasonable. Usually an unarmed fight escalates from something else, argument in a bar, someone’s poor driving, or something really stupid like that, and it proceeds to escalate. Ultimately you should be a whimpering b*tch and back down. It’s not worth it.

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