traffic stop question

This is a discussion on traffic stop question within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; These questions happen all the time and I hate to be the one to feed the trolls but I am genuinely curious: First some back ...

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    Member Array HemiCoupl's Avatar
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    traffic stop question

    These questions happen all the time and I hate to be the one to feed the trolls but I am genuinely curious:
    First some back story, I can't CC while at work,honestly there is really no need; as well as it would present a MAJOR safety issue in my environment,don't bash just take my word for it (insert troll-speak here) so I leave my firearm in my car (insert troll-speak here secured campus little to no chance of a break-in without armed guards tackling you) which is acceptable per company policy, in fact the policy specifically states permit holders may store their firearms in their personal vehicle while it is parked on site, occasionally I don't change clothes before I head home and I leave my firearm in its stowed position in my vehicle, it allows for easy access and good concealment so I'm comfortable doing so, I normally don the holster before exiting my vehicle at home or elsewhere if I happen to stop somewhere. Anyway so I was thinking yesterday on my way home, what if I was stopped by law enforcement for a traffic violation? I make it a habit to greet the officer in a polite manner always showing due respect by leaving my hands on the wheel after rolling down both driver windows so that the tint does not obstruct their view inside (I have nothing to hide). The first words out of my mouth will be good morning/evening officer I have a permit and I am exercising my right currently, how would you prefer to proceed? My state has no duty to inform but I feel they deserve to know and if I were in their position I would want to know. I know different peace officers handle these situations differently including but not limited to the disarmament of the permit holder, since in the above noted situation my firearm would be stowed in a compartment in my vehicle unseen but still readily accessed, what would happen if he wanted to disarm me? I surely wouldn't want him rummaging through my vehicle (once again not hiding anything), and in my mind if an officer asked me to step out of the vehicle I'd likely lock the door behind me and not grant access willingly, would this throw red flags to the cop? I mean obviously it would, I would present my documentation and permit etc I just would refuse to let him "search" the vehicle. So I guess my question is would this situation serve as probably cause for a search against my will? Am I being a stickler? What could I do better? Obviously having my firearm on my person is ideal, I simply don't do it sometimes if I don't change clothes after work.

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    You don't have to consent to a search.
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    They cannot search without probable cause, a warrant or you permission. If they don't have one of those three they can't search.
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    They can take it however they wish (assuming your hiding something, etc.) - but it doesn't matter. You might end up being delayed for a little while though..
    "Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin

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    VIP Member Array Ksgunner's Avatar
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    I was stopped the other day, the officer didn't ask and I didn't tell...Oh, and all I got was a warning..
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    As an LEO I always ask, and will only tell if asked as well. of if I feel the situation dictates it. By volunteering, you will only raise the already high tension level. If asked, tell the officer where the weapon is and tell him you have your permit. He may ask you to step out of the car. Just do it. If your weapon is on your person, the same thing applies. There is no probable cause for a vehicle search as you have committed no crime. The officer can however ask if you will let him. you can allow or refuse, its your call. Also, if you ever feel like you are being treated unfairly, request a supervisor. Not all officers are cut from the same blue cloth.

    Probable cause- "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true"

    IE: If a subject is pulled over, and an officer smells the odor of marijauna upon approaching the vehicle, he can justify, through knowledge of the odor of marijauna and its illegas status, a search of the vehicle and its occupants based on probable cause.

    Also some states have a " duty to inform" law, requiring you to disclose if you are carrying.
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    If your state has a "duty to inform" statute, you have to inform. If not, you don't need to. Beyond that it's a personal choice whether to inform or not.

    FL has no such DTI requirement. If I am asked to exit the vehicle, and I have a firearm "on my person," I'll will inform at that point. If the firearm is in the console, where it often is, I will not inform. However, if the LEO should ask if I have any firearms or weapons in the vehicle, I will reply appropriately. I don't try to memorize what each state requires as to DTI, so in other states I would inform as a courtesy if for no other reason.

    As for the officer searching my vehicle, there will never be any legitimate grounds on my part for his doing so, other than his paranoia or imagined reasonable suspicions. He can do so without my consent--I will not stop him--at his legal and civil risk.

    I haven't been stopped since long before I begain carrying, but in previous stops no LEO ever asked anything about weapons or firearms.
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    Member Array HemiCoupl's Avatar
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    it's not that I'm trying to be a pain to the officer I'm really not, I just don't want a stranger rummaging through my belongings LEO or not. So I guess if I step out and the weapon is no longer accessible a reasonable peace officer would be okay with talking to me like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taurahe View Post
    As an LEO I always ask, and will only tell if asked as well. of if I feel the situation dictates it. By volunteering, you will only raise the already high tension level. If asked, tell the officer where the weapon is and tell him you have your permit. He may ask you to step out of the car. Just do it. If your weapon is on your person, the same thing applies. There is no probable cause for a vehicle search as you have committed no crime. The officer can however ask if you will let him. you can allow or refuse, its your call. Also, if you ever feel like you are being treated unfairly, request a supervisor. Not all officers are cut from the same blue cloth.

    Probable cause- "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true"

    IE: If a subject is pulled over, and an officer smells the odor of marijauna upon approaching the vehicle, he can justify, through knowledge of the odor of marijauna and its illegas status, a search of the vehicle and its occupants based on probable cause.

    Also some states have a " duty to inform" law, requiring you to disclose if you are carrying.
    Man, that brings back memories of growing up in Pittsburgh. I lived in a bad area (where everybody was assumed to be involved in something illegal) and I didn't do drugs, but I sure had my car searched a lot because of officers detecting "odors of marijuana".
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    Long ago when I was a police officer if I was stopped for something I would keep my hands on the steering wheel, identify myself when the officer came to the window and tell him where my ID and weapon were and asked him what he would like me to do. Once he confirmed my identity we would go from there.

    My state has a duty to inform so I do with the same procedure as before and have had no issues. If I did not have a duty to inform I still would but that is just me. In your case simply keep your hands in plain view and tell him/her "I have a permit for concealed carry, I do not have the gun on me at this time it is in a lockbox/glovebox or whatever what would you like me to do?

    He will either tell you to simply stay away from that area, no problem or decide to retrieve the weapon. If he decides to retrieve the weapon tell him where it is and how to get to it. This would not be a consent to search. When asked for permission to search you have the right to decline or limit the scope of the search or stop the search at anytime without further penalty or problems. However if the officers sees, hears, smells, touches or whatever evidence of criminal activity he no longer needs your permission.

    You have to decide whatever you are comfortable with in regards to your vehicle.
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    Member Array HemiCoupl's Avatar
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    thanks for the reply tacman605, my concern is with the local department here, they are pretty noted as being unfriendly to permit holders; all of my encounters with them have been positive; they were astute and upstanding gentleman IMHO; as a previous poster noted not all are the same if I have my emergency 100 dollar bill and the firearm in the same spot I am a drug dealer instantly. I'm hoping I'm getting my point across without seeming disrespectful that is not my goal at all

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    Member Array MasterGadgets's Avatar
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    I think some of the LEO's noses need to be fixed. There is entirely too much "detecting odors of marijuana " happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HemiCoupl View Post
    thanks for the reply tacman605, my concern is with the local department here, they are pretty noted as being unfriendly to permit holders; all of my encounters with them have been positive; they were astute and upstanding gentleman IMHO; as a previous poster noted not all are the same if I have my emergency 100 dollar bill and the firearm in the same spot I am a drug dealer instantly. I'm hoping I'm getting my point across without seeming disrespectful that is not my goal at all
    @bold - Not sure who said that. However, I would suggest an emergency $100 in smaller denominations.. if one only has $100 bill and there's no change to be given, well... I'm sure you get it now.
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    Member Array HemiCoupl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitzburgh View Post
    @bold - Not sure who said that. However, I would suggest an emergency $100 in smaller denominations.. if one only has $100 bill and there's no change to be given, well... I'm sure you get it now.
    yeah I hear you, that's exactly the reason it's a Benjamin, it's too easy to spend a jackson :P

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    Dang, now that I rethink it, though smaller bills make more sense (like you not getting stuck having to pay $100 for an essential item that could of been for less and leaving you without any money left due to lack of change to give) it probably would look more incriminating than just one $100 bill.
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