Guns do not solve crimes

Guns do not solve crimes

This is a discussion on Guns do not solve crimes within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I got this from a story I read about how the CCW law in Kentucky has so far worked out. Back when it was being ...

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Thread: Guns do not solve crimes

  1. #1
    Member Array katmandoo122's Avatar
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    Angry Guns do not solve crimes

    I got this from a story I read about how the CCW law in Kentucky has so far worked out. Back when it was being debated, the Police Chiefs Association was against the new law.

    "No, we haven't experienced the problems that some of our chiefs of police have anticipated," he said.

    Birdwhistell said despite the statistics, the Kentucky police chief's association is still against an armed populous.

    "I don't think our membership have changed their minds," said Birdwhistell, a former Georgetown police chief. "They don't think that putting more weapons out on the street is the way to solve crime."

    Who ever said that carrying a gun was a way to "solve" a crime. Frankly, I don't care who tries to mug me...I just want to PREVENT the crime!!!

    I may seem like nitpicking, but language is the key to a person's thoughts and this explain a lot to me about police chiefs in Kentucky.

    Full story:

  2. #2
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    Unfortunately, many police chiefs and administrators are locked up in their ivory towers and have forgotten what it's like to be a street cop. I daresay that rank and file police officers, nationwide, are generally in favor of CCW laws.

    Witness the ridiculous restrictive language in Ohio's CCW law that was demanded by the Ohio Highway Patrol. You can bet it wasn't the troopers on the road that wanted the restrictions in the law.

    When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
    And the women come out to cut up what remains,
    Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
    And go to your God like a soldier.

    Rudyard Kipling


  3. #3
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Sounds like the old "violence never solves anything". Um, read history. The history of armed citizens has been lower crime....
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

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  5. #4
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    Well a gun could solve crime. I mean if you found a gun that was used in a crime. Proved that it was used in a crime ballisticly, got the BG's prints or DNA off of it. It could solve a crime. So if you have more guns then the chances of finding ones used in crime should increase if crime increases. But seeing how that crime rates have been falling in the U.S. and the number of CCW have been increaseing. That doesn't seem to be the case. Hmmm.....In great Britian they have less guns and more crime so if you find a gun it was probably used in a crime, maybe the cheif was right. More guns prevent crime, less guns help solve crime!
    Last edited by pgrass101; November 3rd, 2006 at 04:55 PM.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Nick's Avatar
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    If Kentucky's law abiding populous shouldn't carry, they'd end up victims or else caught in a crossfire between bad guys and law enforcement. Those chief's assoc. folks never thought about things that that way.
    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them."
    George Mason

    "Gun control is a job-safety program for criminals."
    John R. Lott

  7. #6
    VIP Member (Retired Staff) Array P95Carry's Avatar
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    They don't think that putting more weapons out on the street is the way to solve crime.
    There it is again - ''weapons on the the street" . What a crazy phrase that is. It is more to the point that us CCW's have a means to protect against goblins - who are in fact - ''on the streets'' - some with guns !!!!!!!!

    Get those suckers disarmed and we may have a lesser problem ourselves. They can't do that of course - so instead moan about honest folks who simply want a chance to counter that problem, should it arise.

    Guess comments would also include - ''do exactly what the nice goblin tells you'' - and ''call 911 for help'' - yeah right.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

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  8. #7
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    Guns on the street?

    Quote Originally Posted by katmandoo122 View Post
    "I don't think our membership have changed their minds," said Birdwhistell, a former Georgetown police chief. "They don't think that putting more weapons out on the street is the way to solve crime
    This former chief makes the common, Liberal, simple-minded assumption that the number of guns "on the street" is an indicator of criminal activity. What he should be looking at is the identities of those who have the guns. Are the gun carriers police, honest civilians or criminals? More police and honest civilians carrying guns lowers crime, as John Lott proved in his book "More guns, less crime". More criminals with guns raises crime.

    Honest citizens don't magically turn into criminals because they are carrying a gun. Even the dullest Kentucky police chief should be able to comprehend this.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Okay, with his "logic" the police shouldn't wear/use guns, because they do nothing to help solve crime (like killing the BG and when they run his prints/DNA links him/her to more CRIMES so therefore are now solved).

    This may sound like bashing but:

    Sheriff = Elected by the People

    Police Chief = Appointed by the party in charge

    I hope that everyone can see the difference here, and why I hold no respect for most police chiefs due to they are pols, just in a pretty uniform with a badge (notice I said most, not all).


  10. #9
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    I can testify to the fact that they arent all ignoramuses.

    There are some good chiefs out there that are pro-gun.

    Its just that the liberal news media isnt going to portray a progun chief that might actually support the law..they would rather give airtime to anyone that would badmouth any procarry law out there.

    Its a fact that most of the coverage dealing with guns in general is against them rather than for them. Its important to note that just because we hear it all the time dosent make it so...although it may seem that most cops are anti-gun, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of them arent.
    Universal Background Checks...the next step towards registration and confiscation.

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  11. #10
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I can testify to the fact that they aren't all ignoramuses.

    There are some good chiefs out there that are pro-gun...

    In fact the majority of them are for as much and it seems this particular chief is out of touch and would do well to commiserate with his comrades in arms on the subject.

    National Survey Results of Police Chiefs and Sheriffs

    The following survey question was posed by mail of 22,587 Chiefs of Police and Sheriffs in the United States. It represents a cross section of professional command officers involving every state. The survey was conducted for the 16th consecutive year by the National Association of Chiefs of Police. (321)264-0911.

    Q. Do you agree that a national concealed handgun permit would reduce rates of violent crime as recent studies in some states have already reflected?

    A. 65.7% responded YES

    --from American Police Hall of Fame


    "In a recent poll, more than eighty-five percent of our 1352 members favored Right-to-Carry." -- Letter to St. Louis Police Chief Ron Henderson, from Sgt. John J. Johnson, President St. Louis Police Officers Association, 1/23/99.

    "The Executive Board of the St. Louis Police Officers Association (SLPOA), representing over 1300 commissioned officers employed by the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department, has voted to support the passage of the April 6, 1999 Right-to-Carry referendum." -- St. Louis Police Officers Assn., 1/99 Press Release

    "I lobbied against the law in 1993 and 1995 because I thought it would lead to wholesale armed conflict. That hasn't happened. All the horror stories I thought would come to pass didn't happen. No bogeyman. I think it's worked out well, and that says good things about the citizens who have permits. I'm a convert." -- Glenn White, President of the Dallas Police Association, Dallas Morning News, December 23, 1997.

    "From a law enforcement perspective, the licensing process has not resulted in problems in the community from people arming themselves with concealed weapons." -- Commissioner James T. Moore, Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Memo to the Governor, 3/15/95.

    "As we have seen in other states and had predicted would occur in Texas, all the fears of the nay sayers have not come to fruition. A lot of critics argued that the law-abiding citizens couldn't be trusted... But the facts do speak for themselves. None of these horror stories have materialized." -- Sheriff David Williams, Tarrant County, TX, Fort Worth Telegram, 7/17/96.

    "Some of the public safety concerns which we imagined or anticipated a couple of years ago, to our pleasant surprise, have been unfounded or mitigated." -- Fairfax County VA Police Major Bill Brown, The Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97.

    "I was wrong. But I'm glad to say I was wrong." -- Arlington County VA Police Detective Paul Larson, previously an opponent of Right to Carry, The Alexandria Journal, 7/9/97.

    "Virginia has not turned into Dodge City. We have not seen a problem." -- Virginia Public Safety Secretary Jerry Kilgore, The Fredricksburg Freelance Star, 2/2/96.

    "The concerns I had - with more guns on the street, folks may be more apt to square off against one another with weapons - we haven't experienced that." -- Charlotte-Mecklenburg NC Police Chief Dennis Nowicki, The News and Observer, 11/24/97.

    "The preponderance of the evidence suggests that the vast majority (of permit holders) act responsibly." -- State Sen. Jerry Patterson, R-Pasadena, author of Texas' firearm carry law.

    "To set the record straight... The process is working... The statistics show a majority of concealed firearms or firearm licensees are honest, law-abiding citizens exercising their right to be armed for the purpose of lawful self defense." -- Sandra B. Mortham, Florida Secretary of State.

    "Allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms deters violent crimes and it appears to produce no increase in accidental deaths. If those states which did not have right to carry concealed gun provisions had adopted them in 1992, approximately 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes and over 60,000 aggravated assaults would have been avoided yearly." -- Professor John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, University of Chicago.

    "The facts are in and the record is clear: Right to Carry gives law enforcement, their families and our communities real protection from violent criminals." -- James J. Fotis, Executive Director, Law Enforcement Alliance of America.

    --from Western Missouri Shooters Alliance
    All of the above citations of factual record were sourced from;

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Hmm Guns dont SOLVE crime ... well heck i guess ill call my spoon off of finding rosie odonnal a diet then dammm and i had such high hopes too LOL
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Rocky Mountain High in Colorado
    Dead car jacker in the middle of the street---CRIME SOLVED

    Dead rapist in the ally-----CRIME SOLVED

    Dead robber in the door was of a 7-11----CRIME SOLVED

    Dead burglar in the house doorway-----CRIME SOLVED

    What a moron

    Just like I use to say when I was in the Marine Corps....after an officer reaches a certain rank (full bird/one star) they cease being military and become politicians in uniform.

  14. #13
    Member Array Jungle Work's Avatar
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    LE Administrators

    Some LE Administrators don't want to serve the citizens/public, they want to rule the citizens/public.

    I was one of the very few Chiefs of Police and Sheriffs who supported and testified for the CHL Law in Texas. After a few years of no problems many of the Chiefs and Sheriffs who were against it said that they were for it all along, but couldn't risk the political jepordy of speaking out for it. Political Hacks and Pukes.

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  15. #14
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    I'd like to know the opinion of that chief who was fired for the comments about officers losing weight, regarding CCW.

    I was bugged that PCism led to his firing on the chubby cops issue;
    I'd like to know if he maintains a supportable position on citizens' right to carry guns.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    "I don't think our membership have changed their minds," said Birdwhistell, a former Georgetown police chief. "They don't think that putting more weapons out on the street is the way to solve crime."
    I think it's fair to say that the phrase "to solve crime" in the above context is meant in the ordinary sense of the words. IMO, the opinion is meant to say that more guns isn't the whole answer.

    Would the death penalty "solve the crime" problem? No, but it would sure put a dent in it. Would more cops on the street solve the crime problem? No, but it would sure put a dent in it. Would a firearm in the hands of every citizen solve the crime problem? No, but it would ... sure put a dent in 'em. Little difference, IMO, between someone now having a greater ability to prevent the specific crime that's in his face and someone referring to the greater prevalence of guns "solving" crime. The sense of the words is used in the same manner.

    Of course, I think this chief is mistaken. I think that, absolutely, the only form of defense that someone has at his disposal at the moment when a crime is beginning is what's on his person: situational preparedness, physical fighting skills, knife, firearm, whatever. Little else will work in the same manner, on-the-instant when a crime goes down, beyond the immediate reach of any help.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).

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