New Workplace Violence policy posted...need help interpreting the lawyer-ese

New Workplace Violence policy posted...need help interpreting the lawyer-ese

This is a discussion on New Workplace Violence policy posted...need help interpreting the lawyer-ese within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was made aware of our new Workplace Violence HR policy yesterday and it had a couple of passage concerning carrying/possessing weapons. I have my ...

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Thread: New Workplace Violence policy posted...need help interpreting the lawyer-ese

  1. #1
    Member Array wondering's Avatar
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    New Workplace Violence policy posted...need help interpreting the lawyer-ese

    I was made aware of our new Workplace Violence HR policy yesterday and it had a couple of passage concerning carrying/possessing weapons. I have my NC CCL and currently keep my weapon in my car. My company leases a suite in an shared office complex and my car is parked in the lot of the complex. The following passages were found in the policy:

    Prohibited behavior includes, but is not limited to:
    -The use or possession of dangerous weapons, explosives or hazardous devices or substances on Company property or while conducting Company business, or in vehicles, aircraft, or watercraft that are owned, leased or chartered by the Company when not used by authorized Company employees, agents, contractors or others for legitimate business purposes.
    (This is the one bullet point that pertained to weapons and I interpret it as saying that no weapons are allowed in Company vehicles)

    In another section it mentions:
    Weapons Permitted by State or Local Law: Weapons will not be permitted on Company property in any area not expressly and specifically authorized by law. Unless prohibited by law, employees who bring weapons onto Company property, as allowed by law, must notify security of the type and location of the weapon, whether the weapon is secured, and when it is removed from the property.

    ^Does this mean that since I have a CCL I'm allowed to carry per the State law? NC state law states that posted signs or notice from the Owner means you cannot carry in that building (that's a very very short sypnosis of the NC law). I don't bring the weapon inside, so I don't notify anyone that I have a weapon in my vehicle. Is the parking lot (which is shared among all suite leasees) considered Company property since technically it is owned by the leaser?

    Sorry for the long post and all the legal-ese.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    The "prohibited behavior" section doesn't specifically have a clause exempting lawful possession/use on company property. My read would be: they'd take a dim view of it, unless you get specific clarification to the contrary.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    I think all they are saying is if state law allows you to keep weapons in a personal vehicle, they can't actually stop you from it but I think they are trying to get you to inform them that you have it anyway???

    I'm not sure, but I'd check your state law concerning keeping firearms in private vehicles. If the state law doesn't say that you have to inform the employer, then I wouldn't inform them...

    Obviously the absolute best idea would be to seek advice from your personal attorney, who will be much better qualified to delve into this than most of us.
    Aceoky likes this.
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    Member Array chrisw670's Avatar
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    I believe the parking lot would be considered a form of community property since it's not out right owned by the company your work for and is shared by other businesses in the building. Now, that's just my interpretation of things and, as suggested, you might want to check with someone more versed in the firearm laws in NC.

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    Senior Member Array IsaiahM33's Avatar
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    I'd keep it in the car and not worry about it...but that's me.
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    Member Array MrsHB's Avatar
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    I had the same impression as TX expat and chrisw670.

    You said this is a "new policy", but it doesn't sound as if you're a new employee. If that's the case, why not just pick up the phone and casually ask HR for the plain English interpretation? Just say that some of the provisions about weapons seem to contradict each other and there's some confusion as to exactly what it means.

    Don't say anything about having a gun or a permit, and don't ask any "pointed questions" that might raise suspicion. Be casual and act like you're just curious.

    I suspect that you'll find TX expat is right, and I also suspect that they can enforce the failure to notify provision without violating any laws. However, I don't see how they'd ever find out what's in an employee's personal vehicle, especially when it's parked on property they don't own or exclusively lease.
    Archie likes this.
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    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    IANAL, but this passage really sounds fishy.
    Weapons will not be permitted on Company property in any area not expressly and specifically authorized by law.
    The laws in most cases do not specify where one may carry a firearm, they specify places one cannot. That could be a weaselly way of blocking carry on company property, as no law specifically allows it.
    ~~~~~
    The only common sense gun legislation was written about 224 years ago.

    I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.

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    "My company leases a suite in an shared office complex and my car is parked in the lot of the complex. "

    The parking lot is NOT company property. It belongs to the developer/owner.

    "Weapons will not be permitted on Company property in any area not expressly and specifically authorized by law. "

    If state law does not "prohibit" weapons in an area, then weapons are authorized--permits considered.

    As far as what the notice from HR says, ask them to interpret it in plain English.
    BenGoodLuck likes this.
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    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    This, to me, sounds like double-speak...and they want employees to self-identify if they have weapons in the car, even though you are NOT breaking any laws. I recommend NOT asking any questions, as that will identify you as having weapons, and now you're on their radar. However, caveat to that, if you supervise other employees you could ask in a supervisory capacity, what does this mean since you are charged with enforcing company policy.
    Aceoky and Mr B like this.
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  10. #10
    Member Array wondering's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your input. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks the wording is iffy. My initial read on it is that they don't want weapons in the building or on the property, but the parking lot is technically the leaser's property, so I think I'll keep it in my vehicle and not say a word to anyone. I don't want to be on anyone's radar and asking any question about it will put me squarely there.

    Thanks again for all the help.

  11. #11
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    If no one asks questions, it will remain nebulous. Anthing left vague will remain subject to various interpretations. Is that what you want?

    Or take a copy of it to a lawyer and ask that he interpret it and give an opinion.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    This, to me, sounds like double-speak...and they want employees to self-identify if they have weapons in the car, even though you are NOT breaking any laws.
    Agree. The position is a CYA statement, and it smells heavily of their not wanting to acknowledge acceptable carry of weapons of any sort.

    If a company actually supports lawful carry and they're going to have something in the policy manual stating so, they'll very specifically say that lawful carry of concealed defensive weapons is supported but that all other carrying of arms is banned and subject to disciplinary procedures up to and including termination. Anything short of specifically calling out lawful carry as acceptable and approved leaves a person open to normal and customary "at-will" sorts of handling of their finding out a person carries.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #13
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
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    I would say leave it in the car, don't bring it up, and don't worry about it. Even if there is an active shooter in your workplace, I can't think of many situations where you would make it to your car and do anything other than use it to drive away towards safety.
    The problem with gun control is that drugs are already illegal.

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    Distinguished Member Array Glock2201's Avatar
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    "Weapons will not be permitted on Company property in any area not expressly and specifically authorized by law. Unless prohibited by law, employees who bring weapons onto Company property, as allowed by law, must notify security of the type and location of the weapon, whether the weapon is secured, and when it is removed from the property".

    Because you have a CCP you are allowed by law to carry itI would think you could carry it in the office and just have to notify security which sounds like it might be more of a pain than what it would be worth.I would think if you left it in the parking lot you would not have to notify them because it is not their property.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array jeephipwr's Avatar
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    I follw the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy at work. I also follow my policy of "since you made such a stupid policy, I not saving your butt when SHTF"
    Spirit51 and BenGoodLuck like this.

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