At what point do we stop being grey men/women?

At what point do we stop being grey men/women?

This is a discussion on At what point do we stop being grey men/women? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm in a local mom and pop pizza joint/party store last week waiting for my order when an employee walks in, goes behind the counter, ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 44
Like Tree46Likes

Thread: At what point do we stop being grey men/women?

  1. #1
    Member Array marinevet1994's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Ortonville Mi
    Posts
    141

    At what point do we stop being grey men/women?

    I'm in a local mom and pop pizza joint/party store last week waiting for my order when an employee walks in, goes behind the counter, grabs a pack of smokes, and goes into the kitchen area. It took me a second to notice the store name and logo on the back of his red hoodie so for a split second I thought he was some guy lifting a pack of cigarettes. This made me stop and think, at what point do you as a responsible concealed carrier stop blending and do something that would draw attention to yourself. Do you step in to stop something "minor" like shoplifting just because it might result in a conflict? I understand avoiding conflict, or de-escalating if conflict does occur, but where do we draw the line? At what point do you feel that avoiding conflict takes a backseat to doing the right thing? Just a thought that has been bouncing around in my head and I'm curious what others think.
    Disarming innocent people does not protect innocent people.


    Don't ever think that the reason I'm peaceful is because I'm afraid to be violent!


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array lionround's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Memphis
    Posts
    2,074
    I think unless the person is armed and someone's life is in danger, report it to management. Hopefully, they will call the police. Stay long enough to give a good description.
    If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?
    -- Steven Wright
    1950 Colt .38 Police Positive Special
    2013 SCCY 9mm CPX-2 Stainless Steel
    US Army 1973-1977, 95B

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Outside Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,309
    Assuming you are doing the 'right thing' can be turned around on you pretty quickly. Not every situation is black and white.
    USM1976 likes this.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  4. #4
    Member Array Boudin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    149
    When your life, or someone elses life is in danger. Your permit does not allow you to protect property with your weapon.
    If you see somebody stealing and you want to confront them, go right ahead, but leave your gun in your pocket. We are not the cops.

  5. #5
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Hiding inside a bottle of Jim Beam Black.
    Posts
    17,630
    Unless you're an LEO--you're not an LEO! Call 911, notify management/employees, whatever, until someone's life or well being is placed in danger. Until then, it's someone else's material property and not my responsibility to put my life in risk.
    Honk, latentcarry, JDE101 and 2 others like this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Arborigine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Calaveras County, California
    Posts
    1,961
    Are you willing to risk lawsuit or getting shot defending the property of a stranger, when you only have a suspicion of what is going on? Observe, and alert the employees, or the Police. I am not a Cop, and I don't pretend to be one.
    I don't always have nothing to say, but when I do, I post it on Facebook.

  7. #7
    VIP Member
    Array WHEC724's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    6,776
    I'm always gray. I have a personal policy of a willingness to get involved when lives are at stake.

    I may report a theft, but I'm not endangering myself nor those around me over material possessions.
    __________________________________
    'Clinging to my guns and religion

  8. #8
    Member Array latentcarry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    413
    Unless human life is in jeopardy pulling your carry is not the right thing in any circumstance IMO, There are just too many variables, what if the cig guys pulls his carry because he looks up to a gun in his face. Bad day for everyone. Suppose you walked in on that very situation, who do you point your gun at? The variables go on and on and then take "Murphy's law" into account: LEO walks in on the 3 of you. Best to just keep your carry for the real need and let the guy have a smoke.
    saa likes this.

    "MOLON LABE"
    "come and take them"
    King Leonidas of Sparta

  9. #9
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,631
    Quote Originally Posted by lionround View Post
    I think unless the person is armed and someone's life is in danger, report it to management. Hopefully, they will call the police. Stay long enough to give a good description.
    This about sums it up
    bmcgilvray and JDE101 like this.
    A real man loves his wife, and places his family as the most important thing in life. Nothing has brought me more peace and content in life than simply being a good husband and father.

  10. #10
    New Member Array ddanf308's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    9
    Smartphone camera works great for such instances to be able to give a description to the store owner, but certainly not worth getting into a confrontation over.
    tundra likes this.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    28,387
    Quote Originally Posted by marinevet1994 View Post
    ... but where do we draw the line? At what point do you feel that avoiding conflict takes a backseat to doing the right thing?
    At the point where we cease, as a society, penalizing good samaritans for stepping in and doing what's right, I imagine we'll have many, many more people doing exactly that.

    For myself, I'm concerned enough about surviving encounters and being there in future for my family that I'm unwilling in most every "lesser" situation to get directly involved ... that is, by instead being a good witness, paying attention, calling in the cavalry when able. I'm perfectly willing to thwart a deadly situation that's (a) right in front of me and (b) where I know the facts of the situation (instead of merely having impressions about it, unknowing of who's the GG and who's the BG). But that's just me.

    IMO ...

    We're still only at ~2-3% of the adult-age carrying public actually carrying, perhaps even less when accounting for who doesn't carry all the time. That's not enough to make a huge reduction in the risk of finding a felon today. When we're at ~20-30% or more of the carrying population actually carrying, then I'll begin to believe we're nearing a time when it'll be commonplace for upstanding armed people to step in and be accepted for that being the commonly decent and right thing to do.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; March 15th, 2013 at 02:53 PM. Reason: grammar, correction
    Harryball and Hobo_Hunter like this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #12
    Member Array LoneStarSooner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by lionround View Post
    I think unless the person is armed and someone's life is in danger, report it to management. Hopefully, they will call the police. Stay long enough to give a good description.
    Lot's of good answers here but don't need to expound on it any further than this one. Life or death situations only...

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array JDE101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    6,835
    Even if someone's life is in danger, you better be CERTAIN of who is the BG and who is the GG! I read a report on here a year or so ago of an off-duty police officer who got involved in what he thought was a "life and death" situation and shot who he though was the BG. It turned out the "BG" he shot was actually an undercover drug enforcement agent and the "GG" he was fighting with was actually a BG drug dealer! Imagine how he felt when he learned he had killed a fellow LEO! So unless you have seen the entire situation from the beginning and KNOW without a doubt who the GG and who the BG are, you are best off by just calling 911 and being a good witness. I am not a LEO, nor am I a "sheepdog" out to protect the "sheep"! I carry a gun to protect myself and my family. Period! Now, if I was in a situation where things are clear cut like the theater shooting in Colorado or Sandy Hook, that is a different story. But things are rarely that clear cut. Just my .02.
    10thmtn likes this.
    Live to ride, ride to live. Harley Road King And keep a .45 handy Kimber Custom TLE II

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Outside Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,309
    I went 40 yrs before carrying a gun. I have always been a 'first responder,' both personally and professionally (when I was a park ranger).

    It has never had anything to do with a gun for me....I did what I could at the time, and what I felt was appropriate. I have responded a few times since carrying a gun, but no situation has required it (thankfully) and/or I wasnt carrying.

    So in any situation, my first instinct is to verify the safety of the scene *in general* (meaning myself and others). Then consider whatever action is needed. My gun would not be my first response in most situations....I carry it for my personal safety and only then do I immediately consider if it is the appropriate response (is my hand on my firearm, am I weighing drawing that or pepper spray, etc).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    28,387
    Quote Originally Posted by saa View Post
    I'm in a local mom and pop pizza joint/party store last week waiting for my order when an employee walks in, goes behind the counter, grabs a pack of smokes, and goes into the kitchen area. It took me a second to notice the store name and logo on the back of his red hoodie so for a split second I thought he was some guy lifting a pack of cigarettes. This made me stop and think, at what point do you as a responsible concealed carrier stop blending and do something that would draw attention to yourself.
    Are you in charge of security at the restaurant? Meaning shoplifting, kids running out on a check, teens too loud?

    No?

    Mind your own business! These are not ccw issues. They are business issues. If it's not your business, eat your pizza.
    Hm. The way I read the reference to the "smokes" staffer was simply to point out what prompted the concept of blending in. Not that the OP was in any way contemplating taking down the "shoplifter/intruder" in the hoodie.
    Hobo_Hunter likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

at that point we stopped being a family and s

,

stop being grey

Click on a term to search for related topics.