Honor's or Reciprocity; What do they really mean? - Page 3

Honor's or Reciprocity; What do they really mean?

This is a discussion on Honor's or Reciprocity; What do they really mean? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ccWV Sweet! Florida took about 50 days for me and I'm still waiting on Utah (53 days and counting . . .), ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array Huzar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccWV View Post
    Sweet!

    Florida took about 50 days for me and I'm still waiting on Utah (53 days and counting . . .), but I know that Utah is absolutely overwhelmed! I also heard that the money from the permits goes into their general treasury, while the funding for operations is determined by their state legislature - you can imagine the problem here: fixed income for staff, equipment, etc., even though the income stream from permits has increased - imagine that, politicians not wanting to turn loose of money !

    ccWV
    Yup, I got lucky that the instructor teaching the class for CA (OC) CCW is certified by both UT and FL and his curiculum covers what both of those states require. So in one shot, I got all 3 .
    The only PITA is getting fingerprinted. I can't recall which one requires for the fingerprinting to be done by an agency with arresting powers. Unfortunately my and their schedules don't really match.


  2. #32
    Member Array ccWV's Avatar
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    Fingerprints!!!!!

    Yup, I got lucky that the instructor teaching the class for CA (OC) CCW is certified by both UT and FL and his curiculum covers what both of those states require. So in one shot, I got all 3 .
    The only PITA is getting fingerprinted. I can't recall which one requires for the fingerprinting to be done by an agency with arresting powers. Unfortunately my and their schedules don't really match.
    Yeah, that was a tough one for me, too. My local state police detachment only fingerprints for three hours on Monday morning and three hours on Wednesday afternoon!

    I had to get printed for FL, VA, CT, and UT.

    Make sure to get cards for FL AND UT while you're there and a spare if they'll let you (our local office will do up to three cards at one visit) for any other applications you might want to send out.

    CT requires a fingerprint card for the FBI and for the CT State Police, so I've been printed FIVE times in the last few months! At least I'm getting to know the local LEO's !

    Well it is worth the effort, the wait, and the expense!
    The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, . . . that it is their RIGHT AND DUTY TO BE AT ALL TIMES ARMED . . . Thomas Jefferson (June 5, 1824)

  3. #33
    Member Array timothius's Avatar
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    Wupps!! Speak of the tower of babel!!! I thought that this might be the case. All I can say is "Folks be careful out there when carrying outside your normal jurisdiction". It just doesn't seem to be all that clear to me. Probably not you guys either.

    Regards.

    Tim

  4. #34
    Member Array ccWV's Avatar
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    Thanks, Timothius!

    You really got a good thread going that made us question our positions on views we may have taken for granted!

    But you are right - it is most crucial that we know what to expect when we travel !

    carry safe,

    ccWV
    The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, . . . that it is their RIGHT AND DUTY TO BE AT ALL TIMES ARMED . . . Thomas Jefferson (June 5, 1824)

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huzar View Post
    You missed what I have said: I will follow the STRICTER of the two.
    No, I didn't miss your comment. You are exercising a personal choice (admirable, and probably less confusing if you come from a very restrictive CCW state)... not a legal requirement. There is a difference and I didn't leave want to leave the impression that it was a matter of fact for all of us.

    Believe me, having promoted the CCW reciprocity issue between MO and nine other states who have added MO to their reciprocity lists in the past five months (bringing us to 29, not counting ourselves), I've gotten quite an education on this very subject. So, allow me to support your position by expanding mine;"follow the law in the state in which you are physically present OR the more restrictive law of the state from which your permit is issued if that is your preference".

    Now, just to make the issue a little more complex... here is a brain teaser. MO, by law, does not issue permits to it's residents until the age of 23. Could someone from another state (which issues permits at the age of 21 or less) and who is only 21 or 22 carry in Missouri? The answer is YES.... because it goes back to earlier comments in this thread about the individual being in compliance with the "requirements of the state of issuance".

    The next teaser is even better. A MO resident can have a CCW permit from any state that will issue him or her one. Missouri, DOES NOT REQUIRE a MO resident to have their home state permit. A MO resident may have a permit from "any state or political jurisdiction thereof". So, could a 21 year old Missourian who can't get a MO permit until age 23 who has obtained, for example, a Florida or Utah permit, legally carry in their home state of MO? Remember, MO law only talks about the age of an individual to obtain a MO permit. Once again, the answer is apparently YES.... because they are in compliance with the law of the "state of issuance as to the terms of it's issuance". They would, however, follow Missouri law (restrictions on places where one can carry, for example) while they are at home here in Missouri.

    The ultimate teaser though is as follows: Here in MO, violation of a restricted or posted place (excluding Federal restrictions) is, in most cases, a relatively minor first offense that can result in up to a $100.00 fine (infraction...not even a misdemeanor). Now, if I have a MO permit, I know that is how it will play out. However, let's assume I have a Utah or Florida permit and I'm caught carrying in a non -federal restricted or posted establishment here in Missouri. Who's law would I be subjected to for penalty? The $100.00 MO fine or would it be possible that in lieu of, or addition to, the MO fine, my "offense" could be reported back to the state that issued my permit AND that state could also impose a penalty (many states have much more severe penalties for such an offense)?

    That one I don't have a good answer for but I would bet given the concept of the "terms and conditions of the state of issuance" might get a little to be a real problem.

    I better stop at this point because I'm giving myself a headache.

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