Question on Arizona carry law

Question on Arizona carry law

This is a discussion on Question on Arizona carry law within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was browsing the AZ DPS website and came across a law that states you can be charged with a civil infraction of up to ...

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    Ex Member Array jsevarro's Avatar
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    Question on Arizona carry law

    I was browsing the AZ DPS website and came across a law that states you can be charged with a civil infraction of up to $300 and have your permit suspended if you fail to produce it when carrying and asked by an officer. If you forgot your wallet or something, can't you just tell the cop you are "Constitutional Carrying" on the 2nd Amendment that day since a permit to legally carry concealed (or open) isn't even required in AZ anymore and hasn't been for years?


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    Constitutional Carry took away most - but not all - of the requirements associated with a CCW in AZ, when it was enacted 3 years ago. There are a few places that remain where you can only carry if you have a CCW, establishments serving alcohol being one. Go to Handgunlaw.us for a good synopsis of AZ carry laws (but the official statutes are the ultimate rule, not a handy-dandy free website).

    In all likelihood, the civil infraction penalty you cited isn't getting a lot of exercise since 2010, but it still exists.

    On a more practical side, it would be an extremely rare event if I ventured past my yard with a firearm but not my wallet.

    By the way - welcome to the forum!
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    Ex Member Array jsevarro's Avatar
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    Yes, I know about the requirement of having a permit in places that serve alcohol for consumption on site. I'm talking about the vast majority of other places like Walmart, walking down the street, getting pulled over with a pocket pistol, etc. All situations not requiring a permit. The A.R.S. didn't make any exceptions about specific places, carrying concealed and not having your permit. You allude to there being multiple places you need a permit to carry. Other than NON-posted places selling alcohol for consumption on site...where? I thought that was the only situation. As long as the gun is unloaded, you don't even need a permit to carry it into a school parking lot as long as you stay in the car when dropping off/picking up.

    Personally, I think it's just an antiquated law and needs to be scrapped or updated.

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    I suggest you get in touch with the good guys at Arizona Citizens Defense League - Home

    They have their finger squarely on the pulse of AZ gun legislation, and may be able to directly address your concern. Typically, they flow the concerns of the membership to a targeted audience in the state legislature, and those concerns become the basis for new legislative proposals. Constitutional Carry and the "Harold Fish law" were very much driven by AZCDL. Maybe with some prompting on your part, they might act on your suggestions.
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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...unloaded AND in a locked container...be safe...stay free...
    Quote Originally Posted by jsevarro View Post
    Yes, I know about the requirement of having a permit in places that serve alcohol for consumption on site. I'm talking about the vast majority of other places like Walmart, walking down the street, getting pulled over with a pocket pistol, etc. All situations not requiring a permit. The A.R.S. didn't make any exceptions about specific places, carrying concealed and not having your permit. You allude to there being multiple places you need a permit to carry. Other than NON-posted places selling alcohol for consumption on site...where? I thought that was the only situation. As long as the gun is unloaded, you don't even need a permit to carry it into a school parking lot as long as you stay in the car when dropping off/picking up.

    Personally, I think it's just an antiquated law and needs to be scrapped or updated.

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    Ex Member Array jsevarro's Avatar
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    Eh, I'm sure this has already pointed this out to DPS multiple times. Like you said, the law isn't really enforced, so it shouldn't even really be a problem. According to that A.R.S., all you have to do is show up at your appointed court time and show the Judge that you have a permit that was valid at the time of the "incident" and the charge is dropped and your permit is reinstated. What I was really wondering regarding the permit is if it somehow makes you required to ALWAYS have the permit when carrying concealed.

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    Ex Member Array jsevarro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...unloaded AND in a locked container...be safe...
    WRONG. I said "as long as you stay in the car". You only have to lock it up if you're leaving the gun in the car in a school parking lot.

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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...well, somebody forgot to tell the Feds...here's the law, if you care to read it: http://www.gunlaws.com/Gun_Free_School_Zones_Act.pdf

    esp. (2)B (iii) I AND II...can you show me a cite where it's been changed? If so, I'll be glad to update...

    Quote Originally Posted by jsevarro View Post
    WRONG. I said "as long as you stay in the car". You only have to lock it up if you're leaving the gun in the car in a school parking lot.

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    Have you read the new law where is states no CCW is required. Sometimes the new law will have a subsection that deletes or changes the old law. No matter how the old law reads the new one will take presidence.

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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    Do you have a cite for a newer than 1996 Federal law?...I'm aware that AZ has changed their laws...but we're subject to the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act of 1996 no matter what our state laws say...and that's the point I was making...simply unloading the gun isn't legal for one who has no federally approved state license...it must also be in a locked container as the law says...
    Quote Originally Posted by wingit View Post
    Have you read the new law where is states no CCW is required. Sometimes the new law will have a subsection that deletes or changes the old law. No matter how the old law reads the new one will take presidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    Do you have a cite for a newer than 1996 Federal law?...I'm aware that AZ has changed their laws...but we're subject to the Federal Gun Free School Zones Act of 1996 no matter what our state laws say...and that's the point I was making...simply unloading the gun isn't legal for one who has no federally approved state license...it must also be in a locked container as the law says...
    I'm not sure about the applicability/interaction of the Fed GFSZ law with respect to state laws. Back in CT, my property abutted a high school, and by strictest interpretation of the Federal law I could not walk my property line while armed. It took a conversation with the CT AG's office to clarify that as a CT permit holder, I was duly approved to carry adjacent to the school.
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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...on your own property...under the 1996 version (2)B (i), you would have been just fine...with or without a permit...

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    Ex Member Array jsevarro's Avatar
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    From the AZ law:

    Questions and Answers: Concealed Weapons & Permits - Arizona Department of Public Safety

    What are the school exceptions when carrying concealed weapons?
    Please see below for school exceptions (concealed or not):

    You are an adult in a vehicle and the firearm is unloaded before entering school grounds. Furthermore, if you must exit your vehicle, the firearm must remain unloaded and be secured (locked) within the vehicle, out of plain view. Use caution and common sense if you must exit the vehicle with a firearm to secure it in the trunk (avoid causing a potentially serious disturbance)

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    It's similar over here in NM- but you do not even have to unload the gun, or lock it in anything. As long as it's in the vehicle, you're fine. No license required. I suppose if you were open carrying out in the open and did not possess a license you may be subject to the GFZA.

    30-7-2.1. Unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon on school premises. (1994)
    A. Unlawful carrying of a deadly weapon on school premises consists of carrying a deadly weapon on school premises except by:

    (5) a person older than nineteen years of age on school premises in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance, for lawful protection of the person's or another's person or property.

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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...you're quoting ARIZONA law...I pointed out to you the FEDERAL law...Arizona has no business nor authority explaining/interpreting/overlooking the FEDERAL law...which says very differently...

    ...the difference can be 5 years of your life if convicted under the Federal law...and the AZ folks won't send you care packages...

    Quote Originally Posted by jsevarro View Post
    From the AZ law:

    Questions and Answers: Concealed Weapons & Permits - Arizona Department of Public Safety

    What are the school exceptions when carrying concealed weapons?
    Please see below for school exceptions (concealed or not):

    You are an adult in a vehicle and the firearm is unloaded before entering school grounds. Furthermore, if you must exit your vehicle, the firearm must remain unloaded and be secured (locked) within the vehicle, out of plain view. Use caution and common sense if you must exit the vehicle with a firearm to secure it in the trunk (avoid causing a potentially serious disturbance)

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