Point and Shoot

Point and Shoot

This is a discussion on Point and Shoot within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've had my Beretta 9000 for a little while now (about a month) and have gotten to the point where I can wear out the ...

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Thread: Point and Shoot

  1. #1
    Member Array katmandoo122's Avatar
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    Point and Shoot

    I've had my Beretta 9000 for a little while now (about a month) and have gotten to the point where I can wear out the bullseye at tactical ranges using a modified weaver stance and semi-slow shooting.

    I'm beginning to move on to more tactical areas, including single strong and single off hand shooting, rapid fire, snap shot, etc. For those who don't know the gun, the 9000 is a relatively small pistol that, for someone of moderate to large hands, forces the shooter to rest the pinky finger below the magazine or use a modified magazine extension.

    However, I have begun to experiment with Point and Shoot where I pull the trigger with my middle finger while resting my index finger below the slide, pointing at my target. This allows me a more comfortable one-hand grip and relatively fast acquisition, if not target shooting accuracy. My questions are two fold:

    1) Does anyone else ever shoot this way (with their middle finger)? If so, what are your results and experience?

    2) If I keep this technique to only one handed shooting, do you think I risk a significant chance of messing up my muscle memory with regard to two handed shooting?

    Your thoughts and advice are greatly appreciated!


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array TWO GUNS's Avatar
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    1. NO
    2. Yes

    If you are going to point shoot I think you should use your trigger finger not your middle finger.Keep your middle finger for when you are driving.
    scottync, JerryMac and Kennydale like this.
    Have Fun and Shoot Straight !!

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    LOL Point shooting, Unaimed irresponsible fire , Instinctive shooting , any name you want to give it is a " hot butten " topic . IMHO does it have its place YES and we have some exelent folks on this board who instruct in techniques to do it well and properly . I will note that as far as I know none of them advocate the technique you are useing ( pulling trigger with the " bird " ) Myself I am pretty much a " Use the dammed sights if you can " advocate since this is how i learned , and how i instructed . In all fairness tho i have not had the chance to see brownie or others classes so i am not about to say they dont have some invaluble info to impart . In summery neither aimed fire nor point shooting is the ONLY answer , neither will cover every situation you may see . I will say tho that IMHO there is only one finger to use for trigger control ( assuming you have an index finger ) LOL . Leave the " shortcuts " to the web commandos and apply yourself to building skills that are approprate for the real world .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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  4. #4
    Member Array Hobbes's Avatar
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    IMO, point shooting is for distances so close you can pretty much touch. I really like the method of just using the front sight, I find it to be fast and combat accurate.
    I would not use my middle finger to pull the trigger unless my trigger finger got chopped off or something.

  5. #5
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    I don't know how you can call instinctive shooting "unaimed irresponsible fire" if you can hit exactly what you're shooting at & do it every time.

    No matter what sighting system you use if you hit your intended target and nothing else then that is responsible fire.

    I would say that using your pistol sights and not being able to hit what you're aiming at would be equally as irresponsible as not being able to hit shooting instinctively and in fact slightly more pathetic.
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Qk honestly the " unaimed irresponsible " comment was a tounge in cheek poke at the narrow mindedness of one part of this debate ( myself included to a degree since i tend to demand a visual referance any time you are further than a step and a reach . ) I do feel that both sighted , and unsighted fire have thier place tho . I personaly lack on formal training on unsighted fire , and most likely will continue to lack on it , since my training budget is about non existant any more lol .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  7. #7
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    Has anyone here used FATS simulator? It will teach you that most defensive situations are instictive shoots, no time for sights under 20' or so. Maybe I should start a new topic on FATS...

    Using your middlefinger for the trigger, I only have one question. Why?

    Point with your thumbs, its just as easy.

  8. #8
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    Trigger finger regardless - and I consider the ability to shoot from retention a vital skill - at least accurate enough from muscle memory to score the first hit or two if speed is essential.

    Whether we call this ''point'' shooting, or ''unsighted'' matters not - but it is fast and bridges that time gap between draw and fully sighted.

    Setting up for a classic isoceles/weaver and two hands is a luxury we just may not have. Let us also use the term ''instinctive'' shooting too - that is what it is when one's ''wiring'' has been achieved. But it needs practice every time out i find.
    Chris - P95
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  9. #9
    Member Array katmandoo122's Avatar
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    Well, you all have good points. Honestly, I just happened along to trying it and it actually felt comfortable with the 9000 although I should note that the middle finger actually exhibited less "milking" of the gun when it was used to depress the trigger.

    I did find this website (for what it's worth) that says I'm not TOTALLY crazy...

    http://www.pointshooting.com/

    I'm not advocating it...It was more of an accidental discovery that didn't feel all bad. I will be sticking to more traditional techniques, however, unless I find something that works better.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Chris , i personaly take exception to the term " instinctive" since it isnt , instinctive by deffinition would require no practice or training , shooting without sights does not fall into that ability for most if not all of us . It is a learned skill and if i had to compair it i would say its like rideing a bicycle , once you learn it you tend to retain it to a degree. Close up i hit fairly well from a retention , out to 10 yrds or so well with defensive shooting in mind i am so unlikely to miss a torso that it does not even warrent conversation . but normaly at that range , i still use sights lol . IMHO point shooting is a skill that anyone and everyone needs to learn ( at least from the retention , bad breath range ) but the word here is learn. dont assume you can natively get by just because you can hit a target sometimes lol .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Katman , we have seen the site ( most of us ) lol and all i can say is to repeat , build a viable skillset and leave the " magic shortcuts " to the forums . get with qk , brownie , or one of the other proponents of unaimed fire here and visit . If possible attend some training with one or more of them , also attend some sighted fire training from almost any reputable trainer . Your looking for information , and that is great , Just filter all that is presented to you with a healthy dose of cynicysim , Make the instructor prove to you just why this is the best way to do this , take nothing for granted since it is your life and the lives of your family and friends that depend on what you learn .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  12. #12
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    Sure its instinctive, heres why; you point at objects your entire life. Pick up a gun, now you have to learn to use the sights, trigger control etc etc. You simply need to retrain your brain to trust your eyes and other spidey senses, its no different than seeing an object and simply pointing at it.

    I just spent 30 seconds on that point shooting website... its bad info. wrong technique, you will get piss poor results.

  13. #13
    Member Array katmandoo122's Avatar
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    Well, it seems I may have stirred up some controversy. Let me ask this, is it better to Point and Shoot with 9mm or 40S&W?



    Just kidding, guys, just kidding. I was just curious if anyone else had tried it and now I have my answer(s)...thanks!

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Now see I agree with skills but when you start using terms like " spidey senses " when talking about lethal force .. well ... nahh i aint going further on this idea nor thread , my best advise is allready given and i wont be sucked into a debate on the worth or lack of same of the method of fire , only to say it imho is a trained skill , just like rideing a bike or for that matter walking , you must learn it first , then apply it .

    Edited to add :

    Now ****** kat that is just unnatural , eveyone knows that if it aint a .45 there is no need in shooting it in the first place , a .45 will kill with a near miss , and anything less wont with a full mag com LOL
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

  15. #15
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    spidey senses where a joke, aimed at improper techniques.

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