More Security Theater

More Security Theater

This is a discussion on More Security Theater within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Recently, I went to a very large public event. Not posted, but I bet if I were to ask, there is a no weapons policy. ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array NH_Esau's Avatar
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    More Security Theater

    Recently, I went to a very large public event. Not posted, but I bet if I were to ask, there is a no weapons policy. They normally don't do anything but look for outside food and drink in backpacks.

    As I approached the front of the crowded entry line, I could see a jacketed "SECURITY" employee was doing security screening. I thought - "Well, this will be interesting." Then I realized it was just a cursory peek inside all backpacks, purses, bags, etc. I did decide to unclip my knife and drop it deeper into my pocket. But, about the time I got 20' from him, his supervisor walked up and mentioned something to him and he started having everyone open up their jackets. He was even doing a light pat down of some folks. As I got closer, I could hear him telling the folks in front of me "Show me your belt line." Definitely it was going to get interesting. I looked at one of the guys with me, and he was thinking the same thing.

    As I approached, I got ready for the "conversation." As I walked up, jacket held open but pulled forward to minimize the gap on either hip. I was wearing just a tucked t-shirt underneath, and I don't have enough of a gut that would conceal anything that was on my belt.

    The original guy checked my companion while the supervisor waved me over. Great. He glanced at my belt, evidently missing two glowing green eyes looking back at him, patted the hand pockets on the jacket, and waved me through.

    As we got out of earshot, my companion asks, "So, you're carrying, right?" Yup. "Me too." We laughed and walked to our seats. Security Theater missed:

    - P250 SC at 3:15 in a Tommy Theis IWB
    - 2 x full-size mags at 8:45 in a OWB paddle, behind my flashlight
    - Folding knife w/3" blade
    - Pocket-sized Sabre OC

    But at least people "felt" safer.
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    Member Array spdracr39's Avatar
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    And they have every right to do this. You are assuming they were looking for weapons however I have seen people at concerts put fifths of whiskey in their waistband. Also they may have been doing a security screening for insurance purposes with no actual intention of refusing entry. You did the right thing by just continuing on. The worst they could have done is asked you to leave your weapon in your vehicle. I had a security man at a casino in Las Vegas tell me they had a no weapons policy but they can't do anything if they don't know about it. They have to say it but they choose whether to enforce it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH_Esau View Post
    Recently, I went to a very large public event. Not posted, but I bet if I were to ask, there is a no weapons policy. They normally don't do anything but look for outside food and drink in backpacks.

    As I approached the front of the crowded entry line, I could see a jacketed "SECURITY" employee was doing security screening. I thought - "Well, this will be interesting." Then I realized it was just a cursory peek inside all backpacks, purses, bags, etc. I did decide to unclip my knife and drop it deeper into my pocket. But, about the time I got 20' from him, his supervisor walked up and mentioned something to him and he started having everyone open up their jackets. He was even doing a light pat down of some folks. As I got closer, I could hear him telling the folks in front of me "Show me your belt line." Definitely it was going to get interesting. I looked at one of the guys with me, and he was thinking the same thing.

    As I approached, I got ready for the "conversation." As I walked up, jacket held open but pulled forward to minimize the gap on either hip. I was wearing just a tucked t-shirt underneath, and I don't have enough of a gut that would conceal anything that was on my belt.

    The original guy checked my companion while the supervisor waved me over. Great. He glanced at my belt, evidently missing two glowing green eyes looking back at him, patted the hand pockets on the jacket, and waved me through.

    As we got out of earshot, my companion asks, "So, you're carrying, right?" Yup. "Me too." We laughed and walked to our seats. Security Theater missed:

    - P250 SC at 3:15 in a Tommy Theis IWB
    - 2 x full-size mags at 8:45 in a OWB paddle, behind my flashlight
    - Folding knife w/3" blade
    - Pocket-sized Sabre OC

    But at least people "felt" safer.
    He probably had no idea what those glowing green eyes were.
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    Senior Member Array NH_Esau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spdracr39 View Post
    And they have every right to do this. You are assuming they were looking for weapons however I have seen people at concerts put fifths of whiskey in their waistband. Also they may have been doing a security screening for insurance purposes with no actual intention of refusing entry. You did the right thing by just continuing on. The worst they could have done is asked you to leave your weapon in your vehicle. I had a security man at a casino in Las Vegas tell me they had a no weapons policy but they can't do anything if they don't know about it. They have to say it but they choose whether to enforce it.
    No questions at all that they have the right to search for whatever. And if I'd seen a sign or been told "no weapons," I would have left with no arguments, just a letter to the venue owner politely asking for a refund (which would not be my right, just a request) and explaining why I wouldn't attend any more events there. And for all I know, they might just be worried about folks undercutting profits by bringing in food and drink. Since he patted down the pockets, I'd guess otherwise, but maybe he thought I was smuggling in a candybar!

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    Legal implications aside of willingly violating a security checkpoint... This is a poor example of being a responsible CC'er. You should not brag about this, you should be ashamed. If you were caught with your weapon, you would have had shiny bracelets and a free ride in a cop car. Because they did not find it would not float at anypoint. You risked your carry permit, your freedom and more for what? Because you felt a rule was silly? it didnt apply to you? Posted or not it was obvious they did not want weapons inside, hence the security checkpoint. If you had a question, the responsible approach would have been to ask a supervisor and follow their instructions. They may have allowed it, but by making your own decision you may have risked everything.

    As far as them not finding your concealed weapon...dont think they are stupid. They recieve little training at best, are paid very poorly, and prob dont really care.Ignorant of the fact, yes. But not stupid. Besides being a certified LEO, i work as an event security "guard" myself and know firsthand what is entailed in such events.
    You should seriously rething the responsibilities that come with being a licensed CC'er, or you are going to find yourself in some seriously hot water one day.
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    Senior Member Array NH_Esau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taurahe View Post
    Legal implications aside of willingly violating a security checkpoint... This is a poor example of being a responsible CC'er. You should not brag about this, you should be ashamed. If you were caught with your weapon, you would have had shiny bracelets and a free ride in a cop car. Because they did not find it would not float at anypoint. You risked your carry permit, your freedom and more for what? Because you felt a rule was silly? it didnt apply to you? Posted or not it was obvious they did not want weapons inside, hence the security checkpoint. If you had a question, the responsible approach would have been to ask a supervisor and follow their instructions. They may have allowed it, but by making your own decision you may have risked everything.

    No publicly-displayed or conveyed rules violated.

    As far as them not finding your concealed weapon...dont think they are stupid. They recieve little training at best, are paid very poorly, and prob dont really care.Ignorant of the fact, yes. But not stupid. Besides being a certified LEO, i work as an event security "guard" myself and know firsthand what is entailed in such events.
    You should seriously rething the responsibilities that come with being a licensed CC'er, or you are going to find yourself in some seriously hot water one day.
    Not in NH. Requires a visible posting or direct instruction from authorized person. If they'd found my firearm or other items and determined they were not allowed, I would have been told to leave and I would. No law would have been broken. No shiny bracelets.

    Perhaps, I WAS in volation of the law by violating one of the posted prohibitions (against outside food and drink) because I was carrying gum (not a gun). Since it has 1 calorie per stick, it possibly could be argued as a food item.

    There is no violation in NH RSA's I can find about "willfully violating a [private] security checkpoint."

    I risked nothing but a cold walk back to the car.
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    Member Array KingWalleye's Avatar
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    Two years ago at Soldiers Field in Chicago we were wanded. The company I work for sells the same wands and I couldn't help but notice it was turned off.

    Security theater at it best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH_Esau View Post
    Not in NH. Requires a visible posting or direct instruction from authorized person. If they'd found my firearm or other items and determined they were not allowed, I would have been told to leave and I would. No law would have been broken. No shiny bracelets.

    Perhaps, I WAS in volation of the law by violating one of the posted prohibitions (against outside food and drink) because I was carrying gum (not a gun). Since it has 1 calorie per stick, it possibly could be argued as a food item.

    There is no violation in NH RSA's I can find about "willfully violating a [private] security checkpoint."

    I risked nothing but a cold walk back to the car.
    Fair enough, if state law requires a posting, then I willfully retract the above statement. Also I apologise as it was a lot meaner than I intended it to sound.
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    Quote Originally Posted by taurahe View Post
    legal implications aside of willingly violating a security checkpoint... This is a poor example of being a responsible cc'er. You should not brag about this, you should be ashamed. If you were caught with your weapon, you would have had shiny bracelets and a free ride in a cop car. Because they did not find it would not float at anypoint. You risked your carry permit, your freedom and more for what? Because you felt a rule was silly? It didnt apply to you? Posted or not it was obvious they did not want weapons inside, hence the security checkpoint. If you had a question, the responsible approach would have been to ask a supervisor and follow their instructions. They may have allowed it, but by making your own decision you may have risked everything.

    As far as them not finding your concealed weapon...dont think they are stupid. They recieve little training at best, are paid very poorly, and prob dont really care.ignorant of the fact, yes. But not stupid. Besides being a certified leo, i work as an event security "guard" myself and know firsthand what is entailed in such events.
    You should seriously rething the responsibilities that come with being a licensed cc'er, or you are going to find yourself in some seriously hot water one day.

    hogwash!

  10. #10
    Member Array wrearick's Avatar
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    You don't identify the public event but sometimes they are looking for video cameras. I know most cell phones can record video but not of a sufficient quality to be worth anything to a boot leg video producer, not to mention the sound you get with the voice activation feature is not very good. some venues are worried about glass bottles because once the contents are gone the have a tendancy to fly through the air and hurt folks.....All of this to illustrate that if they haven't posted what is prohibited we are guessing what they were searching for.
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    I wonder why they "enhanced" their screening as you approached. Maybe you passed a discreet magnetometer or were printing?
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    I must have been asleep but when did it become legal for anyone but LE to demand to frisk and pat a person down and that person has to submit to it? They may have to submit to enter but unless something drastically has changed in this country if I come to an entrance to something and rent a cop wants to pat me down I have every right to refuse his frisk as long as I dont try to go past him and enter and just leave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    I must have been asleep but when did it become legal for anyone but LE to demand to frisk and pat a person down and that person has to submit to it? They may have to submit to enter but unless something drastically has changed in this country if I come to an entrance to something and rent a cop wants to pat me down I have every right to refuse his frisk as long as I dont try to go past him and enter and just leave.
    It always has been. If you're entering privately owned property, allowing that entrance can be conditional on any (not explicitly illegal) criteria the owner wishes to impose. You're completely right that you can decline those conditions by not entering the conditional area.
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    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    Isn't that what its really all about.... feeling better?


    Quote Originally Posted by NH_Esau View Post

    Security Theater missed:

    - P250 SC at 3:15 in a Tommy Theis IWB
    - 2 x full-size mags at 8:45 in a OWB paddle, behind my flashlight
    - Folding knife w/3" blade
    - Pocket-sized Sabre OC

    But at least people "felt" safer.


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    Senior Member Array NH_Esau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I wonder why they "enhanced" their screening as you approached. Maybe you passed a discreet magnetometer or were printing?
    Sheer timing. A bit of a crowd, so no way they'd pick it out (and if they did, why not stop me). Definitely not printing - it's still pretty cold up here, so heavy jacket. This rig (minus the mag carrier) hardly prints with an untucked T-shirt.

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