Reason # 5,372,895

This is a discussion on Reason # 5,372,895 within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; .....to why it is good to conceal carry. http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=113806 Crime Victim Fights Back KOTV - 11/6/2006 4:31 PM - Updated 11/7/2006 6:01 AM Citizens fight ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 32

Thread: Reason # 5,372,895

  1. #1
    Member Array Maverick7340's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    199

    Reason # 5,372,895

    .....to why it is good to conceal carry.


    http://kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=113806


    Crime Victim Fights Back
    KOTV - 11/6/2006 4:31 PM - Updated 11/7/2006 6:01 AM
    Citizens fight back against a criminal. Citizen crime fighters are the reason a suspected burglar is behind bars.

    News on 6 crime reporter Lori Fullbright says instinct and adrenaline caused these victims to jump into action and chase a burglar through a neighborhood. Now, with a few hours to reflect on it, at least one of them says he probably wouldn't do it again. What he might do instead, is buy a gun.

    There’s nothing like waking up to a stranger in your house. "He says I'm sorry I woke you, go back to sleep and started walking toward the back of my house," said burglary victim Mark.

    Mark chased the suspect to the backdoor and grabbed his shirt, then thought better of it and let him go. When police couldn't find the suspect Mark went looking on his own.

    After driving around the neighborhood for 45 minutes, Mark came back down his street and saw the same man, this time being confronted by a woman and two men. The woman said he'd just been in her house trying to steal her purse. That's when the chase was on. "He pulled out a knife and starts swinging it at everybody, then starts running and he starts running down the street and up my driveway," Mark said.

    Mark jumped out of his truck and took off running after the suspect, talking to 911 on his cell phone the whole time. He lost the bad guy briefly, then, got a real shock. "Here comes my truck. He came back over here and got in my truck and stole it and was coming down 14th Street," said Mark.

    Tulsa Police took over the chase until the suspect crashed Mark's truck into a pole. He took off running one more time and was confronted by yet another citizen. The suspect pulled out his knife again and the citizen pulled out a gun, that pretty much ended it and police arrested 36 year old Gary Wilson[pictured]. He was booked into jail on 11 different counts.

    "It seemed like a cartoon, the whole thing did and I couldn't believe I was in it, but, I was just mad enough to do it and chase him so that's what I did," Mark said. Police say in addition to the knife, Wilson had a gun on him, but, it wasn't loaded. Wilson is an ex-con. The citizen who pulled the gun on him did have a carry and conceal permit, so he's not in trouble. Of course, police don't recommend you chase criminals, but, people are so sick of crime they just react and in this case, at least, it turned out well.
    Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway.

    John Wayne

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    25,796
    There’s nothing like waking up to a stranger in your house. "He says I'm sorry I woke you, go back to sleep and started walking toward the back of my house," said burglary victim Mark.

    Mark chased the suspect to the backdoor and grabbed his shirt, then thought better of it and let him go. When police couldn't find the suspect Mark went looking on his own.
    A matter of chance that the BG didn't have a gun. The homeowner easily could have been killed.

    Interesting sequence of events, though: BG in house, runs; BG stopped by little ol' lady, draws knife, escapes; confronted by truck, so steals truck; confronted by citizen carrying gun, and it's over. Good lesson there.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #3
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,631
    Nice story, but how would that go down for you if you had to shoot the bad guy?



    So Mark (now the defendant) was chasing Mr. Wilson, who I'm sure was on his way to church, cornered him and forced Mr. Wilson to try and defend himself. So Mark shot him, Mr. Wilson was trying to retreat and Mark forced a deadly encounter. At what point did Mark stop being a victim, and start being an aggressor?






    Just playing a little devil's advocate here, trying to make people think about their actions.

  5. #4
    Member Array whitestone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    111
    Pretty reckless. If Mark buys a gun likes he says he might, I hope he learns how to use it.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    25,796
    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Nice story, but how would that go down for you if you had to shoot the bad guy?
    With a BG in the house ... confronted, won't comply, shot by homeowner, held until police arrive. How would it "go"? In most every place I know of, just fine. The threatened homeowner would be alive and standing, and the BG would be neutralized.

    Once the BG flees, though, one had better have one's knowledge of the law and justifiability screwed on pretty tight, for all the obvious reasons.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #6
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,631
    Exactly. Once the chase began, it would be over for Mark.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array artz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    2,351
    congrats to Mark...
    " Refuse to be a victim, make sure there is a round chambered ! "

    Just call me a pessimistic optimist !

    U.S. Navy vet 1981-1992

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array ron8903's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,575
    what SIXTO said.
    "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."
    - Sir Winston Churchill

  10. #9
    Member Array Maverick7340's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    199
    Here is Oklahoma we have the "make my day law". He wouldn't have got out of my house without leaving a blood trail for the police to follow.
    We also have, started Nov 1, the stand your ground law. If the BG pulled the knife I have every right to stand my ground and use deadly force.
    I can't be put on trial for it and they can't file a civil suit.
    Last edited by Maverick7340; November 7th, 2006 at 09:27 AM.
    Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway.

    John Wayne

  11. #10
    Administrator
    Array SIXTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    19,631
    Mark is not standing his ground once the chase starts, he's now on the offensive. The stand your ground laws are for a defensive situation.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    25,796
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick7340 View Post
    ... the stand your ground law. If the BG pulled the knife I have every right to stand my ground and use deadly force.
    If lethal force is threatened against you and you respond to counter that threat, then you're right. More power to you.

    But, you'll "hang" for your actions if you spend 45mins hunting a neighborhood for a suspect, chase him down and then gun him down. Had you been that final citizen that got knifed and pulled the gun, you'd be fine. But had you been "Mark" and been the aggressor in the eyes of your judges ... Caution is due. Think it through, from the eyes of the 12 fine folks that will judge your actions.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #12
    Member Array produman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Sunny,Fl
    Posts
    322
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    If lethal force is threatened against you and you respond to counter that threat, then you're right. More power to you.

    But, you'll "hang" for your actions if you spend 45mins hunting a neighborhood for a suspect, chase him down and then gun him down. Had you been that final citizen that got knifed and pulled the gun, you'd be fine. But had you been "Mark" and been the aggressor in the eyes of your judges ... Caution is due. Think it through, from the eyes of the 12 fine folks that will judge your actions.
    You are right, very sticky situation...But if Mark just had a gun at first all else does not matter.
    "May God have mercy on my enemies, because I won't."
    General George Patton

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    25,796
    The guy "Mark" is very, very lucky he didn't actually catch up to the BG. His actions would have been his own noose. And that would have been sad. The State's actions in charging his a$$ would have been the proper response to a new aggressor (Mark), but sad.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #14
    Member Array Maverick7340's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    199
    I think people are missing my point in the original posting. It was the conceal carry guy that had every right to pull out his gun when the BG pulled his knife. It was his actions that stopped things.
    I am NOTsaying if mark had a CCW that hunting the BG down would be something to do. I was applauding the conceal carry guy.
    If Mark had a gun at home he could shoot the BG but once the BG left he has no right to hunt him down with a gun.
    I'm sorry if I gave the impression that Mark should have had a gun and hunted the BG down.
    Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway.

    John Wayne

  16. #15
    Member Array katmandoo122's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    326
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    The State's actions in charging his a$$ would have been the proper response to a new aggressor (Mark)...
    I don't understand how. Most states have citizen's arrest laws or common laws. It is perfectly within his rights as a citizen to seek and detain a suspect that he witnessed committing a felony, although you must take care not to trespass into wrongful imprisonment/kidnapping charges.

    If he did so and was subsequently threatened with a knife, he would then have the right to defend himself (assuming he had a right to have the gun wherever he was when he was confronted).

    I'm not saying that it would have been the right thing to do and the PA would and should take a hard look at it, but I don't think those circumstances warrant an automatic assumption that that state would have been "proper" to file charges.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Another reason for having a bug-out bag
    By grady in forum Related Gear & Equipment
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: September 2nd, 2012, 12:48 AM
  2. For some reason........
    By Pure Kustom in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: September 3rd, 2009, 02:43 PM
  3. One more reason...
    By moparoutlaw in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: August 29th, 2009, 04:05 PM
  4. One reason NOT to buy an AR-15
    By ExactlyMyPoint in forum Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: September 15th, 2008, 04:14 PM
  5. Do we need another reason?
    By XD in SC in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: August 9th, 2008, 10:30 AM