Something I've been wondering about lately
This is a discussion on Something I've been wondering about lately within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; How is it that countries like Japan and China have imposed laws against the average person owning a gun, and yet they don't seem to ...
November 8th, 2006 05:39 AM
Something I've been wondering about lately
How is it that countries like Japan and China have imposed laws against the average person owning a gun, and yet they don't seem to have a problem with violent crime? Here in America, guns have always been a part of our culture, and it would be very hard to ban guns and not have crime rates sky rocket. Then again they're really big on martial arts, so I suppose that would be their ways of self defense. I'm still against the idea of banning weapons here in America for obvious reasons that the media and the Brady Bunch cannot see. It could be a cultural thing.
November 8th, 2006 05:39 AM
November 8th, 2006 05:50 AM
Japan and China also deal with their criminals, instead of pandering to them.
"Just blame Sixto"
M&P Doc- Just ask.
November 8th, 2006 05:55 AM
Both countries also have gangs, organized crime, drugs, you name it. Their news media, from what I can see, is less prone to sensationalize crime.
Now for low crime look at Singapore. However most here would not care to live with the draconian laws they have. Breaking any law there is serious trouble.
If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.
November 8th, 2006 06:24 AM
As already mentioned, there is plenty of crime. As already mentioned as well, they really take care of their perps accordingly.
It doesn't take a genius to understand that if crimes have stricter repercussions, less perps will consider the crime's payoff worth it.
This conversation reminds me of Hammurabi's code.
November 8th, 2006 06:26 AM
Lots of countries that we "condem" as being backward,uneducated,immoral,3rd world,etc.,etc.,have laws,government,rulers,even dictators,that do not put up with law breakers. They are treated harshly,and "justice" is handed out swiftly. When you go to jail,you go to HELL ! No "rights". No appeals. You simply dissappear.
I have been to some of these countries and seen this first hand. This apparently is a huge deterrant. (Well,duh !!) ---------
November 8th, 2006 07:37 AM
My mother was Canadian, I spend a lot of time in Canada, Canada has very restrictive firearms laws, and they still have a lot of violent crime. Watch Canadian news and it is as rife with crime news as our own media. It has been said the only three countries with a gun culture are the USA, Mexico, and Canada yet countries lacking a gun culture seem to still have problems. I read the Scotsman and the UK sure has its share of violent crime. Just my take. Regards, Richard
November 8th, 2006 08:11 AM
Oh dear...where do I begin??
Originally Posted by spyderdude
As shown in the "Location" line under my avatar, I live in Japan (just outside of Tokyo) and have done so for the past 8+ years. With Japan, the crime issue boils down to this: Japanese people generally realize that it is WRONG to rape/rob/kill each other, so they simply don't do it! They obey the law...! What a concept! Whole books can and HAVE been written as to why this is, but that is basically what it boils down: Japanese are raised to be decent, humble, hardworking people because to be otherwise is shameful and (dare I say less I cause images of The Last Samurai to pop into your heads...) dishonorable. Japanese people usually do the right thing because it is the right thing to do.
And contrary to Bruce Lee movies and the crap that Hollyweird/TV shills out to the masses, every Asian person is not a martial arts master. I would say that there are more people doing martials arts in America than in Japan, both in raw numbers and on a per capita basis. Sadly, most of Japan has discarded the best aspects of its Warrior culture. There was a bit of a scandal about a year or so ago when a low-level Yakuza (Japan's version of the Mafia) punk charged after 2(!!) ARMED cops...and they literally turned tail and ran away like scared little girls! Even the Prime Minister said it was screwed up that two so-called police officers ran from this punk. (It was caught on tape, thus the public exposure...)
Speaking of cops, the Japanese Police are basically useless. This is not just my opinion, my Japanese friends agree with this assesment as well. Because their is very little serious crime going on, the cops ocuppy their time stopping old ladies on bikes to see if they are stolen. Seriously. One particular trait of the police here that amazes and disgusts me to no end is this: If the cops see you as weak, they will try to brow beat you/"play the man", but if you get right back in their face, they back down and quite trying to bully you. The only thing they are good for is giving directions at the Koban police boxes.
So yeah...it is a cultural thing. If I woke up tomorrow to a Japan with the same amount of gun ownership levels as America has, there would be *some* (cuz idiots/nutters are everywhere) increase in firearms related crimes, but nowhere near what America has. Why? Because America is all about "ME!!!!" , stroking our own ego, and "getting yours, F*** others!" ; whereas Japan is all about "We" , being humble and cooperating with others. Japanese society is not Ego based, unlike Western society. Thus, emotionally disturbed Westerners tend to blame others for their problems, whereas Japanese usually (rightly) blame their problems on themselves. Anyone remember the Sean Connery quote from "Rising Sun"?
"When an American goes crazy, he gets a gun and kills other people; when a Japanese goes crazy, he gets a rope and kills himself."
The cops are basically useless, but the prisons are a whole different ball park. In Japan, for some inexplicable reason, the prisons are not a nice/fun place to be. What can you do in a Japanese prison?
- STFU...because idle chit chat with your fellow crooks is usually banned. So much for planning that escape attempt with your prison buddy
- WORK!!! Unless you are sick or physically unable, you WILL work of your debt to society
- Do your time...ALL of your time!! In Japan, a "5 year sentence" REALLY IS A 5 YEAR SENTENCE!!! Your "time off for good behavior" was before you decided to commit a crime.
You can NOT:
- Get a taxpayer financed college education. If college was your goal you shouldn't have blown your chance by commiting a crime
- Run the damn Prison! Wanna mouth off/disrespect or disobey a Guard? Standby to be bum-rushed, handed a good 'ol fashioned ass-whoopin' , and then get put into "the Belt." This charming little device is a leather belt that gets cinched TIGHT!! around your felonious waist to the point where you can hardly breathe. The attached handcuffs keep you from taking it off. Enjoy, it is your new best friend for the next few hours,...or days. And don't go whining about it, because you can't;
- Get the ACLU/Celebrities/other usefull idiots to give a rat's about what happens to you. You did the crime, so STFU and take your punishment. No one wants it known that their family member/friend whatever went to prison, so they are not going to appear on TV complaining about you so-called plight.
- Pursue you latent homosexual tendencies; either as the punter or the receiver. Prisoners are under the CONSTANT watch of the guards, so there is NO chance for a "date".
- Get drugs and other crap smuggled into the prison. ALL prisoner mail is read and SUBJECT TO CENSORSHIP, so you better say nice things, such as how sorry you are for bringing shame upon your family. And the guards are unbribable. so that won't work either. Plus the guards watch you at ALL times, so you'll never get the chance to roll 'dat blunt anyways.
So yeah...a different culture. One where people don't break the law, and where the prisons are not summer camps. Oh those wacky Japanese and their crazy ideas...
Last edited by BushidoMarine; November 8th, 2006 at 08:56 AM.
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
- Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC
November 8th, 2006 08:35 AM
Well said! It's about doing the right thing, having honor, being respectful and living a life of character and integrity and decency.
One quote came to mind when I read this topic...by the infamous Jim Carey in Liar Liar:
"Stop Breaking the LAW a******!"
Originally Posted by BushidoMarine
November 8th, 2006 08:38 AM
Hey great post and something to ponder. The "me" thing will be the downfall of our society.
I'd like to think that the folks that have taken the steps to get a CHL, and have weighed the responsibility for doing so, have a different attitude about themselves and society.
November 8th, 2006 10:02 AM
Cultural nuances, yes. Most Asian cultures are strictly hierarchial- "the head-man speaks for us, his will is law". Traditionally, enforcement of serious transgressions were visited out on the whole family/village, and not just the offender. This is true to this day, in China (ala the Tienamen uprising)most notably, but througout the less developed Eastern societies. Japan is interesting (from my admittedly limited interactions) in that they seem to have suppressed a great deal, re: WWII. Several Japanese people I have talked to had a less than rudimentary knowledge of the events leading up to it- knew little other than that the US dropped an atomic bomb on them to prevent the Emporer from controlling natural resources in the eastern hemisphere. Long-term social ramifications will be interesting, to say the least.
The loyalty to the society and individual self-restraint is admirable, but....will it remain? I think they are approaching where we were, circa 1800, in social context. Great personal and societal development, and retaining the "old world" personal reserve.
Unfortunately Americans have allowed personal freedom to be seperated from personal responsibility. Correct that, and our social ills pretty well disappear.
November 8th, 2006 10:03 AM
I think it helps that they have a homogeneous culture whereas here in the US we're pretty fractured. It probably helps that, for the most part, they can empathize with each other.
Originally Posted by BushidoMarine
November 8th, 2006 11:13 AM
I must say I fully agree with what BushidoMarine had to offer on why things are the way they are in Japan.
But ayan's observation about a homogeneous culture does bother me. (NOT to say that it was necessarily factually incorrect.) I just can't bring myself to see racism as a positive influence.
To me, it seems that we (in the U.S.,) are sadly lacking in two of the essential Japanese qualities, those being a sense of personal responsibility and a well-defined sense of personal honor. The "rub" being that it was those two qualities that set their nation on the path to a war which ended only after being hit with two nukes.
I guess that's why I'm still looking for some sort of middle path.
Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.
November 8th, 2006 01:32 PM
All these very Important Issues are covered in the book "The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy: Should America Adopt the Gun Controls of Other Democracies" by David B. Kopel. there are definite pulse and minus to the cultural differences between japan and the U.S. The Me generation is also part of our Individualism. Yes its a negative side effect but we also have a great number of other influences that keep us in conflict.
Here's a link to an excerpt for the Japanese side of the argument.
I have great respect for the Japanese culture but is has had it problems too. No culture is perfect.
-Diplomacy: The art of saying nice dogie until you can find a rock.
-The truth is a three edged sword.
-Your brain is your primary weapon everything else is just a tool.
-When the only tool you have is a hammer then everything starts to look like a nail.
November 8th, 2006 03:04 PM
Both Japan and China are police states. The only difference between them is that Japan has (recently) been relatively benevolent. The world complains about how we treat prisoners in Gitmo but turns a blind eye to how Japan treats "suspects" in custody.
North Korea has even lower gun violence than Japan and China, as long as you don't count government on people violence.
November 8th, 2006 04:54 PM
A Friend Just Spent a Month in Rural China...
she spent a month in rural China teaching English to Chinese teachers.
Originally Posted by spyderdude
Here's how crime is dealt with...
Murder...Rape...Drugs...trials are quick and to the point. If convicted, the death penalty is readily used...no appeals...and the sentenced is carried out in a matter of weeks...end of story.
Caught with some dope...which is hardly likely because of the penalties...you are in 'permanent deep trouble'...no such thing as repeat offenders!
Our appeals process, and punishment in general, is a joke!
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
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