Signs are only for Law Abiding individuals........
This is a discussion on Small sign, very very small sign. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Went to see iron man 3 with my wife yesterday and noticed my town's theater had changed ownership/management. Just out of curiosity, I looked at ...
Went to see iron man 3 with my wife yesterday and noticed my town's theater had changed ownership/management. Just out of curiosity, I looked at their new 8"/12" policy sign. The regular sized paper contained extraordinarily small letters regarding all kinds of different things. Somewhere in the middle I found what I was looking for for. "All weapons and concealed firearms are prohibited inside this building and its property." It was sooooooooo small, impossible to notice unless you went out of your way looking for it, like I did. The letters were literally 1/16-1/8 of an inch in size and the "no Beretta 92" symbol next to it could not have been more than 1/4 of an inch.
Anyway, signs mean nothing in Missouri, all they could have done was ask me to leave, but it made me a little concerned about my upcoming trip to Tennessee, where signs do carry the weight of the law. Please, nobody post the link to Handgunlaw, because that site does not give examples (pictures) of what kind of signs are legal and what size they need to be. My question is for all you guys/gals who do live in states where signs carry weight. Does this seem like a business setting you up to get in trouble with signs that small. I am worried about my trip to Tennessee. Do I need to worry about signs that small every single place I go? I feel like that is Unreasonable. What's the standard size a sign must be to carry weight in Tennessee? How hard do you guys normally look for signs when you travel?
Signs are only for Law Abiding individuals........
Well, even if signs in Missouri did carry the weight of law, the sign on the theater you attended would not have met the legal requirements in Missouri for proper signage.
Hopefully, TN_Mike will be along and able to post the sign requirements for TN. If I find any sign requirements for TN, I'll be sure and post it for ya.
In the meantime, here is a link from the S&W forum regarding signs in TN.
Update: It would seem that even though TN signage does carry the weight of law, unlike other states, there is not specific state requirements as to exact sign demensions, wording or use of the standard gun ban image. It merely states prominantly displayed at all entrances.
39-17-1359. Prohibition at certain meetings — Posting notice. —
(a) An individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by §§ 39-17-1351 — 39-17-1360, at meetings conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity or government entity. Notice of the prohibition shall be posted. Posted notices shall be displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited. If the possession of weapons is also prohibited on the premises of the property as well as within the confines of a building located on the property, the notice shall be posted at all entrances to the premises that are primarily used by persons entering the property. The notice shall be in English but a notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited. In addition to the sign, notice may also include the international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle. The sign shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, premises or property and shall contain language substantially similar to the following:
PURSUANT TO § 39-17-1359, THE OWNER/OPERATOR OF THIS PROPERTY HAS BANNED WEAPONS ON THIS PROPERTY, OR WITHIN THIS BUILDING OR THIS PORTION OF THIS BUILDING. FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS PROHIBITION IS PUNISHABLE AS A CRIMINAL ACT UNDER STATE LAW AND MAY SUBJECT THE VIOLATOR TO A FINE OF NOT MORE THAN FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500).
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
What sign,, I didn't see a sign? And I'm not looking for one either.
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You should look and see if there is a minimum font size.
If I owned a business and I did/didn't want firearms in it you would know it from 20 feet away.
We have a similar problem here in North Carolina where signs do carry the weight of law; there are no specifications as to size or lettering for signs. As an example Triangle Town Mall in Raleigh ha a 2 X 3 inch Rules of Conduct sticker on each door prohibiting guns as well as other actions. I almost needed a magnifying glass to read it.
When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
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Most commonly seen is the international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle. We call it the gun buster sign. Most of the establishments use this symbol instead of the lengthly wording required by statue. Class "B" misdeamnor with fine of $500 if violated. Don't see a lot of those around where I live though, but maybe that's because I don't frequent places that post.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. Because it's in English, thank a vet
In Tennessee, per TCA 39-17-1359 they can use the appropriate wording (or similar) listed in the code or opt to use "The international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle". Either one works.
It also says that it must be "in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property..." and that "Either form of notice used shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building..."
It doesn't go into detail in regard to the size other than that. Keep in mind that if it isn't posted at all primary entrances then it isn't legally binding.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. Research these things yourself, additionally, to confirm.
Bottom line: Conceal well. The cops do NOT know the law. Not joking. They have no idea. If you get in trouble, it will be based on the emotions of the moment, not the law. Not trying to criticize the cops, I just have yet to see them know the law on this subject.
EDIT: I am located in TN, so that's how I know. ;)
Last edited by perfection; May 6th, 2013 at 11:33 AM.
Here's a good case of a law that is needed, of course it's in regard to a law we shouldn't even have.
Each state should create and produce their "gunbuster" sign (I think they should charge for it, maybe even run a background check, but that'll never fly). One size, one color scheme, one image of a certain pistol, one material, etc. The sign should have an official state seal on it and come with specific directions on sign placement, which I feel should be near the door handle, because that is where you are looking when entering a place. I also feel that anyplace that is considered off limits (federal, jail, school, etc.) should have to post. If a business wants to prohibit concealed carry they need to acquire this one sign from the state. Any other sign would be invalid, no intent shall be expressed. You don't have the correct sign people with permits shall be able to carry concealed without fear of prosecution. No handmade signs, no tiny static cling transparent signs, no worded signs, no combination signs. I thnk Texas does something similar but their sign has a lot of wordage.
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You know, if I managed a business, and my corporate bosses relayed a memo down to me that I was to put up signs prohibiting carry, I would make them really small and hard to notice just like that theater. And in my case in Wisconsin where signs do carry the weight of law, I would make sure to make them "out of spec" so to say so they wouldn't actually carry the weight of law.
In regards to your question, I know you said don't link handgun law, but read this, and air on the side of caution. Go out of your way to check for signs if you are intent on following them, since they do carry the weight of law in TN.
I am surprised TN members haven't chimed in yet...
Totally missed that. Good work.
Here in Texas we have very specific "gun-buster" signage requirements. Although signs do carry the weight of law, they must adhere strictly to very specific rules regarding size, visibility, placement etc. The usual no handgun, circle with a slash type of sign carry absolutely no weight.