Question About CC vs OC

Question About CC vs OC

This is a discussion on Question About CC vs OC within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live in Pennsylvania and have a CC permit (LTCF). PA. is also an open carry state as is many around the country. As I ...

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Thread: Question About CC vs OC

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    Distinguished Member Array Oldpsufan's Avatar
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    Question About CC vs OC

    I live in Pennsylvania and have a CC permit (LTCF). PA. is also an open carry state as is many around the country. As I understand it OC is permitted (except Philly) with the OC on the waist, shoulder holster, etc. but must not be covered as in CC. This begs the question, why bother to obtain a CC if OC is legal ? I can understand many reasons why someone would want to conceal, what I don't understand is if you CC and your gun shows are you violating the law, and if so how can that be if OC is permitted ?


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    Distinguished Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    What makes you think printing or accidentally exposing part of a holstered pistol is illegal in PA (outside Republik of Philli)?

    In MI (an OC state) a CPL allows you to legally carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle. State law lists any weapon in a vehicle within arms reach as "concealed". There are additional laws describing legal firearm transport. You may walk around OC, but would have to properly prepare your pistol for transport to enter a motor vehicle unless you have a CPL. Some states consider the glovebox or center console legal storage and do not require unloading.

    In addition, printing or carrying a holster pistol is not brandishing in MI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldpsufan View Post
    I live in Pennsylvania and have a CC permit (LTCF). PA. is also an open carry state as is many around the country. As I understand it OC is permitted (except Philly) with the OC on the waist, shoulder holster, etc. but must not be covered as in CC. This begs the question, why bother to obtain a CC if OC is legal ? I can understand many reasons why someone would want to conceal, what I don't understand is if you CC and your gun shows are you violating the law, and if so how can that be if OC is permitted ?
    If you are legally allowed to OC and your CC gun becomes visible you are not breaking the law. Now, if you are OC'ing, without a permit, and your gun becomes covered, you are in violation of the law.
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    Senior Member Array yz9890's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    If you are legally allowed to OC and your CC gun becomes visible you are not breaking the law. Now, if you are OC'ing, without a permit, and your gun becomes covered, you are in violation of the law.
    the attorneys and LEO's I've spoken to in KY, UT, FL and CO all said that OC and CC laws are primarily about intent, not accidents.
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    Distinguished Member Array Oldpsufan's Avatar
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    To summarize, open carry is legal in Pennsylvania without a License To Carry Firearms except in "cities of the first class" (Philadelphia) and vehicles where a License To Carry Firearms is required to do so.

    With that said, we would like to point out that there is much debate among firearm owners about whether openly carrying firearms is really a good idea. While we will leave that choice to the individual we will state that in many urban areas (namely Philadelphia) doing so will draw unwanted attention from law enforcement that may include (but not be limited to) the following repercussions:

    Being stopped and questioned by law enforcement.
    Having your License To Carry Firearms seized and sent back for revocation.
    Being arrested either improperly or for other charges like disturbing the peace or creating a public nuisance.

    While this may not happen should you choose to carry openly, many urban law enforcement officers we have talked to have expressed a very negative opinion towards the idea. Some have suggested that law enforcement will do everything in their power to make your life difficult should you choose to.

    Openly Carrying a Firearm/Gun in Pennsylvania
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    Senior Member Array yz9890's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldpsufan View Post
    Some have suggested that law enforcement will do everything in their power to make your life difficult should you choose to.
    it seems there's at least a small portion of the OC crowd that do it for that purpose alone.

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    Distinguished Member Array Oldpsufan's Avatar
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    Agreed, there's another thread here with the same theme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yz9890 View Post
    the attorneys and LEO's I've spoken to in KY, UT, FL and CO all said that OC and CC laws are primarily about intent, not accidents.
    same here, intent and condition of the complaint. Someone calls in and says he was shopping and I saw his gun...they say get a life. LEO calls in drunk and disorderly (or other infraction that used to get you a few hours in the tank and a ride home) with a weapon, now you're looking at a felony arrest

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    Obviously you want a ccw if OC is allowed so that you maintain the element of surprise, do not advertise that you have a gun on you just begging to be stolen and avoid all those loud and nasty arguments with vocal antigun soccer moms who sometimes call the police when they see your gun. :) If OC is allowed there are not laws about exposing your gun. That goes without saying. :)
    The chief danger in life is that you may take too many precautions. - Alfred Adler

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    In ky oc is guaranteed and cc is legal with a permit. I suppose if in winter you OCed in a belt holster and your coat happened to cover it some LE if they really wanted to be a horses well you know could make a issue of it but Ive never heard of it or seen it happen here. Now stick it inside your waist band and let it covered up probably should have the CC permit.
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    I go both ways on this. Some guys loath open carriers, but we are both fellow gun owners.

    I like the OC options for going to the range, road trips and in Montana we have to OC in restaurants. However I conceal whenever possible. Too many people got freaked when you I OC daily waiting on my permit.

    Concealing is nice for places like Church or crowded places. With hoplophobics.

    Even in Montana people are scared of guns.

    I don't get these guys on the YouTube who OC to purely bait cops. Why?! If you know your cops are worthless, why risk the lawyer fees and BS.

    I like OC to use my rights as a Montana boy and our cops are great here. When I've been pulled over they expect that you are armed. I guess it's just the state your in. Our state troopers and sheriff's are very honorable and friendly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldpsufan View Post
    While this may not happen should you choose to carry openly, many urban law enforcement officers we have talked to have expressed a very negative opinion towards the idea. Some have suggested that law enforcement will do everything in their power to make your life difficult should you choose to.

    Openly Carrying a Firearm/Gun in Pennsylvania
    And the appropriate response for being a law-abiding citizen under harrassment by LE is to take the matter to court in a civil suit. If enough do, the harrassment will cease. The question becomes, are there enough people willing to endure the harrassment and time in courts to right the wrongs?
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    Ex Member Array DetChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    What makes you think printing or accidentally exposing part of a holstered pistol is illegal in PA (outside Republik of Philli)?

    In MI (an OC state) a CPL allows you to legally carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle. State law lists any weapon in a vehicle within arms reach as "concealed". There are additional laws describing legal firearm transport. You may walk around OC, but would have to properly prepare your pistol for transport to enter a motor vehicle unless you have a CPL. Some states consider the glovebox or center console legal storage and do not require unloading.

    In addition, printing or carrying a holster pistol is not brandishing in MI.
    To add to my fellow Michigan resident here, having a CPL AND open carrying allows you to carry Anywhere. Yes even in gun free zones. Links below. I personally wouldn't do it because it scares the sheep and cops but it's within my rights as a Michigan resident.

    http://miopencarry.org/moc_files/OCGP.pdf

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf

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    Senior Member Array GeorgiaDawg's Avatar
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    OC is definitely more comfortable for me, but I prefer CC because I don't want to stand out or draw attention to myself.
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    Distinguished Member Array Hodad's Avatar
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    They make it easy in Georgia for all of us dumb "rednecks".

    You are issued a Georgia Weapons Carry License which allows OC or CC.

    If you see someone in Georgia OC'ing, other than LEO, someone working in a gun shop or some other profession that might require being overtly armed, I would avoid them if at all possible.
    "Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"

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