So, would you?

So, would you?

This is a discussion on So, would you? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Taken From the WI CC law it states as Follows: "(4) A person is privileged to defend a third person from real or apparent unlawful ...

Results 1 to 12 of 12
Like Tree14Likes
  • 6 Post By Hoganbeg
  • 1 Post By atctimmy
  • 1 Post By tdave
  • 3 Post By Nmuskier
  • 2 Post By archer51
  • 1 Post By PEF

Thread: So, would you?

  1. #1
    Member Array gtfoxy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    313

    So, would you?

    Taken From the WI CC law it states as Follows:

    "(4) A person is privileged to defend a third person from real or apparent unlawful interference by another under the same conditions and by the same means as those under and by which the person is privileged to defend himself or herself from real or apparent unlawful interference, provided that the person reasonably believes that the facts are such that the third person would be privileged to act in self-defense and that the person's intervention is necessary for the protection of the third person."

    This poses a interesting question when confronted with the prior, Paragragh 3

    "(3) The privilege of self-defense extends not only to the intentional infliction of harm upon a real or apparent wrongdoer, but also to the unintended infliction of harm upon a third person, except that if the unintended infliction of harm amounts to the crime of first-degree or second-degree reckless homicide, homicide by negligent handling of dangerous weapon, explosives or fire, first-degree or second-degree reckless injury or injury by negligent handling of dangerous weapon, explosives or fire, the actor is liable for whichever one of those crimes is committed."

    So as a privilege, what are the circumstances you would not exercise those priveleges?

    Are you, on average, prepaired, mentaly and equipment wise, to assist and control a suitutation that would arise requireing this privilege to be enacted?

    Utah puts it a little more "legaly" by example.


    "76-2-402. Force in defense of person -- Forcible felony defined.


    (1) (a) A person is justified in threatening or using force against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that force or a threat of force is necessary to defend the person or a third person against another person's imminent use of unlawful force.

    (b) A person is justified in using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury only if the person reasonably believes that force is necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury to the person or a third person as a result of another person's imminent use of unlawful force, or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

    (2) (a) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in Subsection (1) if the person:

    (i) initially provokes the use of force against the person with the intent to use force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;

    (ii) is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or

    (iii) was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement, unless the person withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to the other person his intent to do so and, notwithstanding, the other person continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force.

    (b) For purposes of Subsection (2)(a)(iii) the following do not, by themselves, constitute "combat by agreement":

    (i) voluntarily entering into or remaining in an ongoing relationship; or

    (ii) entering or remaining in a place where one has a legal right to be.

    (3) A person does not have a duty to retreat from the force or threatened force described in Subsection (1) in a place where that person has lawfully entered or remained, except as provided in Subsection (2)(a)(iii).

    (4) (a) For purposes of this section, a forcible felony includes aggravated assault, mayhem, aggravated murder, murder, manslaughter, kidnapping, and aggravated kidnapping, rape, forcible sodomy, rape of a child, object rape, object rape of a child, sexual abuse of a child, aggravated sexual abuse of a child, and aggravated sexual assault as defined in Title 76, Chapter 5, Offenses Against the Person, and arson, robbery, and burglary as defined in Title 76, Chapter 6, Offenses Against Property.

    (b) Any other felony offense which involves the use of force or violence against a person so as to create a substantial danger of death or serious bodily injury also constitutes a forcible felony.

    (c) Burglary of a vehicle, defined in Section 76-6-204, does not constitute a forcible felony except when the vehicle is occupied at the time unlawful entry is made or attempted.

    (5) In determining imminence or reasonableness under Subsection (1), the trier of fact may consider, but is not limited to, any of the following factors:

    (a) the nature of the danger;

    (b) the immediacy of the danger;

    (c) the probability that the unlawful force would result in death or serious bodily injury;

    (d) the other's prior violent acts or violent propensities; and

    (e) any patterns of abuse or violence in the parties' relationship."
    Last edited by gtfoxy; May 25th, 2013 at 05:54 PM.


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    1,725
    The answer, as always, is, "It depends."
    atctimmy, archer51, TVJ and 3 others like this.

  3. #3
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Gastonville
    Posts
    6,754
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    The answer, as always, is, "It depends."
    That's it in a nutshell. You have to be there, in it, and make a judgement call.
    SmokinFool likes this.
    I havenít heard any of the journalists who volunteered to be waterboarded asking to have their fingernails wrenched out with pliers, or electrodes attached to their genitals.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array tdave's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    2,839
    They forget. The defense of self is a right not a privilege. The defense of others is possibly an honor and it may be a duty.
    sdprof likes this.

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Upper Michigan
    Posts
    1,735
    99% of the time I will be a good witness with a cell phone. If the recent London slaying had happened in front of me, in my town, I don't think I would have had the stomach to stand idly by.
    gtfoxy, TVJ and SmokinFool like this.

  6. #6
    VIP Member
    Array archer51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    22,362
    No one truly knows what they will do until confronted with a situation. You can practice for scenarios, discuss them and possible actions until your blue in the face, but until your "under the gun" so to speak, you don't really know.
    Jetfuelrm and SmokinFool like this.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

    USAF Retired
    NRA Life Member

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    28,328
    Depends on the situation, my knowledge of it, my belief in the likelihood of my direct intervention making a difference.

    Do I come running toward every person within hearing distance who I believe is engaged in a deadly encounter? Nope. If something occurs near me where I know what's occurring and who the basic players are (GG, BG), and I believe I can stop the unjustifiable violence to the point of saving lives? Yes, absolutely. Where it gets muddy is in between, where there are too many unknowns or the likelihood of successfully halting the situation is low. BTDT, on a few occasions. You never know 'til you're there.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; May 25th, 2013 at 10:23 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Easy8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    N FT Myers, FL
    Posts
    3,141
    Long time ago I was standing in line at a currency exchange. The two guys in front of me started arguing an than a fist fight. Local leo who was up in age tried to break it up they both ended up turning on him. I am not a small guy especially now :) but back than prob 6'3" about 220. i hit the guy closest he was out. The other guy I grabbed and held on the ground still the leo composed himself. Than he proceed to help me with the struggling guy by soaking us with pepper spray. My eyes swelled up I could not see so the struggling guy hits me in the mouth finally other officers showed up an all the other people in line told them what happened took a couple of hours to totally recover. The leo I helped never said a word to me. My advice unless its a woman or child getting assalted use your phone be a good wittness .

  9. #9
    VIP Member
    Array PEF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    4,061
    These threads pop up often. But you never know until you're there. Too many variables to say one way or the other....
    SmokinFool likes this.
    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

  10. #10
    Member Array Miketrance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Posts
    220
    I'm not a LEO, and it isn't my job to protect others but me and mine. That's where it ends for the most part. As others have stated jumping into a fight where you don't know all the variables isn't a good idea. I've heard of many stories of people interfering with a domestic violence situation, just to have to victim turn on them for interfering with their partner.

    The only people who's behavior I can predict are my family.

  11. #11
    VIP Member
    Array PEF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    4,061
    Quote Originally Posted by Miketrance View Post
    I'm not a LEO, and it isn't my job to protect others but me and mine. That's where it ends for the most part. As others have stated jumping into a fight where you don't know all the variables isn't a good idea. I've heard of many stories of people interfering with a domestic violence situation, just to have to victim turn on them for interfering with their partner.

    The only people who's behavior I can predict are my family.
    You married? If so, how long?
    -PEF, a Framer with a Steelie...
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    1. All guns are always loaded.
    2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
    3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
    4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

  12. #12
    Member Array ConditionZero's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    158
    Was raised to mind my own business. But if I witnessed a woman or child in danger, I'm not sure I would be able to stand idly by. But as mentioned, depends on the situation as I would mostly likely not interfere with a domestic dispute between one man and one woman for the reason Miketrance brought up.

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •