Post By oldman45
May 25th, 2013 06:04 PM
Where To And Not To Carry Question
I am honestly very confused as to the laws regarding carrying a concealed weapon in an establishment that serves alcohol (Virginia). I have tried reading the Virginia State laws as to where it is prohibited but I can't seem to understand where exactly it applies to. A bar is an establishment meant to specifically sell alcohol so therefore it would be illegal. Now what about a grocery store such as Wegmans, Safeway, and Walmart? Where do they fall under? Wegmans sells alcohol and also offers samples of wine. They also have a small cafe area where wine can be ordered. Today I CC'd my pistol in and nothing was said. Maybe I got away with it. Is that legal? My understanding is that a place where it is solely meant to serve and consume alcohol would be illegal to carry inside.
To add to that, I went shopping at Ikea and on the entrance door it said it is a weapons free zone. I still carried inside and found no hassle. Now to my understanding their sign holds no legal precedence and can only be enforced by asking me to leave. And if I refuse only then can I be breaking any laws. Is this correct? I also carried in a local mall where I heard it is not allowed yet I wasn't confronted. Any thoughts?
For me these laws are somewhat hard to understand and a "dumb downed" version would be great.
May 25th, 2013 06:11 PM
I don't think I can address your questions, but I'm curious why you think you would be hassled or confronted if you were in fact carrying a "concealed" firearm? It strikes me that you would only be hassled or confronted if they saw the weapon or you informed them you were carrying it. With that in mind, the fact that no one stopped you from carrying concealed isn't a defacto acceptance, but merely a lack of you getting caught doing it.
Originally Posted by JW_XD40
In my state business with "no gun" signs have the force of law. Even if they didn't, I would still respect the wishes of the owner and either take my business elsewhere or leave my gun in the car. In my mind, that's just common courtesy and respect for property rights.
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to post a link to the handgun law site. That's probably your best bet for a clear and concise summary by state.
May 25th, 2013 07:50 PM
I might add that there is a vast difference between a place that sells alcoholic drinks for consumption on the property (bars, restaurnats, etc) and places that sell bottled or canned drinks to carry out (Walmart, Walgreens, grocery stores, convenience stores).
Personally, if my gun is not welcome in a place of business, then neither is my money or myself. I will respect the rules of the business regardless of the law. I do not want to be any place where I am not wanted.
A 9mm might expand but a .45acp never shrinks.
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living."
May 25th, 2013 08:02 PM
Your ccw course should have covered this stuff. If it didn't you have a responsibility to educate yourself on the basics. Here's a good place to start- Virginia State Police - Resident Concealed Handgun Permits
May 25th, 2013 08:25 PM
This is exactly how I deal with it. I let my money do the talking by taking it on down the road to where it is welcome.
Originally Posted by oldman45
May 28th, 2013 02:57 AM
There are no bars in Virginia.
As long as you don't consume alcohol, you may carry concealed in restaurants which serve alcohol, unless posted.
("Assuming" you have a valid carry permit.)
"The time is now near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be freemen or slaves."
------------------------------------— George Washington 1776
Gun free zones
are safe havens-
May 28th, 2013 03:30 AM
Here is the paragraph out of va code § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry; penalty.
Originally Posted by nontechguy
J3. No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.
Anything not specifically addressed in Va code is legal, so it would be permissible to Open Carry in a restaurant AND consume alcohol. however note that para J1 carries some specific penalties:
J1. Any person permitted to carry a concealed handgun, who is under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs while carrying such handgun in a public place, shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. Conviction of any of the following offenses shall be prima facie evidence, subject to rebuttal, that the person is "under the influence" for purposes of this section: manslaughter in violation of § 18.2-36.1, maiming in violation of § 18.2-51.4, driving while intoxicated in violation of § 18.2-266, public intoxication in violation of § 18.2-388, or driving while intoxicated in violation of § 46.2-341.24. Upon such conviction that court shall revoke the person's permit for a concealed handgun and promptly notify the issuing circuit court. A person convicted of a violation of this subsection shall be ineligible to apply for a concealed handgun permit for a period of five years.
Note however that this only talks about carrying a conceal handgun, however I am fairly sure the police can find a way to apply some other part of the law to an intociated person carrying openly. They may not be able to revoke your CHP (or you may not even have one) but it is not a good idea.
May 28th, 2013 08:35 AM
Conceal carry in business that sell alcohol for consumption on sight is legal, you just cannot drink. If they sell alcohol for off site consumption, CC is legal. OC is also legal in those locations as well. Technically there are no bars in VA.
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May 28th, 2013 08:44 AM
I am very curious to know the answer to this as well, OP. I'm going to assume you didn't purposely walk by the store manager and flash your concealed weapon to see if there would be a reaction...
Originally Posted by thebucketeer
May 28th, 2013 09:35 AM
1. If you are going to be drinking you don't wear your EDC (which is a good rule of thumb anyway).
2. If you are not going to be drinking then you can wear your EDC in any restaurant and/or business that sells alcohol.
3. If a business says they don't want any weapons inside their establishment then if you wear your EDC and get spotted you have to remove your EDC from the store or you can get written up for trespassing, etc. Common courtesy says to yield to the store owner's wishes and leave your EDC in the car; common sense says no one is going to know anyway if you are CC properly unless they have metal detectors at the doors; I am more likely to EDC inside an IKEA or BabysRUs/ToysRUs than I would a privately owned small business where I know that the owner really doesn't want me CC in his store. Depending on what I'm shopping for I don't go out of my way to frequent stores where the store owners don't want me to CC--I can spend my $ at another store that doesn't prohibit people from legally defending themselves.
Just moved from VA a year and a half ago...great place!
May 28th, 2013 09:48 AM
I was always under the impression that you could legally carry even in prohibited places if you prominently displayed your concealed carry badge & sash.
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