Texan Arrested At Capitol For Illegal Knife (link)

Texan Arrested At Capitol For Illegal Knife (link)

This is a discussion on Texan Arrested At Capitol For Illegal Knife (link) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I Didn't Beat the Ride - Illegal Knife + CHL + Concealed Handgun = Jail + Charges...

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Thread: Texan Arrested At Capitol For Illegal Knife (link)

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
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    Pain is the best teacher,but nobody wants to go to his class.


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  2. #2
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    Well, he had a chance to read the handbook when he took his class. The TX CHL unlike the FL Permit isn't a weapons
    permit and as best I can determine, this statement of his is flat wrong: "The law also states it doesn't apply to a person who is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid concealed handgun license (CHL). The crux of that is that the majority LEOs don't know or, as I found out, don't choose to acknowledge the plainness of this exception. I thought I stood a good chance of successfully disputing an arrest by pointing out the law in the event I was stopped."

    I wish our legislature would make the CHL a CWP, but even that change wouldn't have helped him as per the story
    the knife wasn't concealed.

    It is unfortunate that this fellow misinterpreted the law, and in any case that he didn't stick to the length limit.

    It is also unfortunate that he wasn't cut some slack if that is the only thing he might have been charged with.
    Seems like a warning to go put that thing in your vehicle would have been more appropriate.

    I don't carry a knife precisely because I truly can't understand our knife laws and I've even gotten misinformation
    about legal blade length, to the effect that it had to be under 3.5 inches---from a cop; and fortunately in a social situation.
    USM1976 likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    IMO, most knife laws are ridiculous. That being said, open carrying a 6.25" fixed blade to a Capitol building isn't the best course of action.
    msgt/ret, atctimmy and StevePVB like this.
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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    For christ's sake - why don't people follow through and read the whole thing (can't tell you how much that needed a cuss word); or at least skip to the end to find out the end of the story.

    I'll spell it out for you guys:

    Charges were dismissed

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    For christ's sake - why don't people follow through and read the whole thing (can't tell you how much that needed a cuss word)

    I'll spell it out for you guys:

    Charges were dismissed
    You can hardly get upset at anybody for not reading through 43 pages of random comments about the incident.
    Taurahe, msgt/ret, suntzu and 1 others like this.
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Yeah, I added "skip to the end", probably as you were posting. Initially I thought something like that would be common sense - I sure as heck didn't read the whole thread to find out how it turned out. Just seems there's been a lot of misleading titles/posts lately and if you're gonna start a thread on such a topic, it seems common courtesy would dictate you take the time to follow through.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    For christ's sake - why don't people follow through and read the whole thing (can't tell you how much that needed a cuss word); or at least skip to the end to find out the end of the story.

    I'll spell it out for you guys:

    Charges were dismissed
    Because no one provided the link in the original story; you have to go through pages of sometimes unsympathetic
    discussion to get to the request by the state to dismiss the charges in the interest of justice.

    Dismissal in the interest of justice doesn't mean he didn't break the knife law, and doesn't mean a CHL allows you
    to carry a big knife. He got lucky.

    IMO the DA had mercy on him and saw the absurdity of the charge under that set of
    conditions; which is what the arresting officer should have done--- "go put that in your truck."

    What part of 5.5 inches isn't understandable?
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Taurahe's Avatar
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    Glad all worked out for him, but carrying a knife that large is a bit senseless IMO. I carry a folding knife with a 3.75 inch blade daily and it is more than enough knife to deal damage if necessary, I will say that his knife was gorgeous
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    That was addressed by his lawyer:
    Emailed my lawyer, Here is his response.

    An "in the interests of justice" dismissal signifies that the prosecutor recognizes that he is dismissing the case, not merely because he can't prove the case, but because you are in fact innocent of the offense. It's the difference between someone who is "not guilty" and someone who is actually innocent of the offense alleged.


    What part of "(b) Section 46.02 does not apply" is not understandable?
    AcesFull likes this.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array USM1976's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    For christ's sake - why don't people follow through and read the whole thing (can't tell you how much that needed a cuss word); or at least skip to the end to find out the end of the story.

    I'll spell it out for you guys:

    Charges were dismissed


    It states the charges were dropped not that he correctly interpreted the law...which I believe in most police officer's and prosecutors minds is exactly what he did.
    Hopyard likes this.

  11. #11
    Member Array ItalianSteel's Avatar
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    IANAL but.... it is clear to me that he did not violate the law.

    TX Penal Code 46.02 "Unlawful Carrying Weapons":

    Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.
    (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
    (1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
    (2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
    (a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
    (1) the handgun is in plain view; or
    (2) the person is:
    (A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;
    (B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
    (C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
    (a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.
    (a-3) For purposes of this section, "watercraft" means any boat, motorboat, vessel, or personal watercraft, other than a seaplane on water, used or capable of being used for transportation on water.
    (b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
    (c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.
    Which is what he was charged for. However TX Penal Code 46.15 "Nonapplicability" clearly states:

    (b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who...
    (6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;
    I don't see how it could be any more clear that he did not do anything illegal. I don't think it's a "loophole" or misinterpretation either. It is silly to say "you can bring a loaded gun into the capitol building, but watch out how long your knife is..." hence this exemption.

    Yeah sure, you may not call it "smart" nor "wise", but it's not unlawful. Glad the charges were dropped, would be really ridiculous for him to lose his CHL for something like this.
    mr.stuart and AcesFull like this.

  12. #12
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    Let's get to the bottom here--- The state issues a CHL not a CWP. The knife was not concealed. It was worn
    attached to his belt, and outside if I understood the stuff at the link Mr. Stuart posted. The legal knife length limit
    is 5.5 inches and that isn't disputable. His knife length was alleged to have exceeded that.

    We have absolutely no clue why the DA decided to request a dismissal. "In the interest of justice" is a catchall
    which doesn't mean he didn't do it. It could just mean the DA felt he honestly misunderstood and had other things he would rather prosecute.

    Even if 46.02 seemed to apply, from just reading the text, it doesn't.

    Here is the first paragraph of 46.02 "PC §46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club

    46.035 "(2) “License holder” means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

    It is very clear that 46.035 is what defines what may be carried, what one is licensed to carry, and not the term "weapon" or "knife" as asserted

    PC §46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:(1) peace officers (2) parole officers (3) community supervision and corrections department officers appointed or employed under Section 76.004 (4) an active judicial officer as defined by Section (5) an honorably retired peace officer or federal criminal investigator (6) a district attorney,(7) an assistant district attorney,(8) a bailiff designated by an active judicial officer (9) a juvenile probation officer

    [AND____Where the law seems misconstrued by the guy arrested]

    (6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;

    The non-applicability applies to the prohibition against the carrying of a concealed handgun, nothing more: not knives, clubs, or any of the other stuff listed in 46.02 as an illegal weapon.

    How that can possibly be twisted to mean the CHL allows the carrying of an illegal knife is beyond me. It is one heck of a
    stretch to get from that to Non-applicability of the prohibition of carrying illegal knives.


    I'd certainly discourage anyone else from trying what this guy in the story posted by the OP did. If the legislature wanted you to have a license to carry a weapon, they'd change the
    law to make it clear.
    Snub44 likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    It says "carries on or about one's person" - nothing about carrying a weapon concealed or open. The only "concealed" requirement is with respect to carrying handguns with a permit to do so.

    The bottom is, all internet interpretations aside, that the actual legal professionals involved all disagree with your assessment and, in a similar incident in MO, the city of Columbia shelled out an undisclosed amount of money b/c of yet another misinterpretation of a similarly worded statute(s).

  14. #14
    Member Array ItalianSteel's Avatar
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    So it would seem that we are debating if the 46.15 exemption only applies to firearms or if it allows all items mentioned in 46.02 if the person is carrying with a CHL.

    In this instance, the letter of the law can lend itself to both sides. I know you may disagree, but it does not say "46.02 does not apply for firearms if...". The wording of the law can be interpreted as it exempting ALL of that section, not a particular bit. Maybe it is a legal mistake but that is the letter of the law here.

    As for the spirit of the law, let's think about it logically. What sense does it make to allow someone to carry a firearm (even if concealed) on the premises but then worry about the length of the knife they may be carrying. Allowing a ranged deadly weapon but not a close-quartered one seems kinda... silly to me. Don't get me wrong, I know silly laws do exist on the books but that's another discussion.
    Tzadik likes this.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taurahe View Post
    Glad all worked out for him, but carrying a knife that large is a bit senseless IMO.
    No more devoid of sense than, say, carrying a "wonder 9" pistol with 15+ rounds.
    pittypat21 likes this.
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